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Nebrzephyr

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  09:42:22 AM  Show Profile
I installed a Tsunami "late" FDL-16 in an Atlas 8-40CW and I very happy with the operation with one exception. It runs great and the sound on the loco beginning to move is right on. The issue I have is the 5-7 seconds "lag" on going to speed step 0. If you reverse direction immediately the sounds are still in the "stopping" sequence.

I guess I just need to play with the "sound matching to speed steps" in DecorderPro. Are there separate CV's for matching the sounds at movement start and then for matching sound at stopping?

Bob



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Tom M.

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  09:54:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tom M.'s Homepage
Bob,

To my knowledge, there is only one "notching" control CV. That is CV 116.

Regards,

Tom



Country: USA | Posts: 1150 Go to Top of Page

ri_e8_652

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  10:49:43 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Tom M.

Last night I removed a QSI sound decoder from an Atlas GP40-2 for a customer and replaced it with a Tsunami TSU-1000 EMD 645 Turbo decoder. (As many of you know, the AT-style board replacement Tsunami will not fit because of the speaker arrangement.) Without making any CV adjustments, the unit ran slow and steady, without any jackrabbit starts. Using 128 speed steps, the loco ran ultra slow and smooth at throttle step 2.

The QSI decoder can now be returned to "Area 51," where its bit manipulation prime mover UFO sounds are more in keeping with craft housed at that facility.

Regards,

Tom



I use the canned Tsunami speed tables as my standard. Once you set the speed table to match the fleet, you then adjust the starting and peak motor voltage to bring the new guy in line with the fleet standard. Also, by using the speed tables to make the sound notches rise more quickly, the sound notches match the locomotive speed better and slow running is also enabled.

I have all major manufacturers represented on my layout and once the engine receives its Tsunami upgrade, programming is a snap. I could avoid the hassle of programming each CV individually by getting a SPROG and using Decoder Pro, but it really isn't that hard to do manually, once you have your CV's standardized.

I have also begun the process of de-QSI'ing my fleet. The UFO noises sound a bit pathetic when the Tsunami fleet roars by (or even purrs by). Even worse, the much ballyhooed Titan sounds are just the same QSI UFO sounds, except in stereo. So much for that option. Bye bye QSI!


Tom Klimczak
Lemont, IL
...CC115 at JOLIET...got my signal from UD tower and now...heading east!

Country: USA | Posts: 298 Go to Top of Page

Ken Rice

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  12:52:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ken Rice's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by IAISfan

quote:
Originally posted by k9wrangler

This isn't a full time job for me, I've wasted enough of my finite life tinkering the one Tsunami I have for me. Never have gotten it to work to my satisfaction.

...
Tsunamis, including yours, are capable of outstanding performance, but if you're giving up, you've got a $100 decoder going to waste.



I have tried several procedures for getting good performance out of a tsunami. I was able to get it somewhere in the same performance ballpark as the QSI decoder I was replacing. But I certainly wouldn't call that outstanding, I'd call it barely acceptable. I ended up using the tsunami for sound, and putting in a zimo for motor control. Zimo motor control really is outstanding.

But I'm always willing to be convinced, so next time I need to replace a QSI with a tsunami/zimo combo I'll start off with just the tsunami and try the various procedures again.

Ken.


My blog: http://rices-rails.blogspot.com/

Country: USA | Posts: 1093 Go to Top of Page

IAISfan

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  1:25:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit IAISfan's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Rice
I have tried several procedures for getting good performance out of a tsunami. I was able to get it somewhere in the same performance ballpark as the QSI decoder I was replacing. But I certainly wouldn't call that outstanding, I'd call it barely acceptable. I ended up using the tsunami for sound, and putting in a zimo for motor control. Zimo motor control really is outstanding.

But I'm always willing to be convinced, so next time I need to replace a QSI with a tsunami/zimo combo I'll start off with just the tsunami and try the various procedures again.



Please let me know if I can help at all Ken. I could never pass as a DCC expert, but I'm happy to share what's worked well for me. In spite of my gripes about Athearn Geep dimensional errors, I rank performance at the top of my personal "must have" list for locomotives, so I'm not using the word "outstanding" lightly.

Historically jerky Tsunami performance out of the box isn't what I personally find to be acceptable - I'd rather have LokSound or QSI sound, or even none at all, if that was my only choice - but now that I've determined the CV settings I shared above for the locomotives that make up the bulk of my roster, configuring new examples of the same models is like flipping a switch: When I first place them on the track, they run terribly. I change those CVs (or, for first-timers in my fleet, run through the steps described previously to find the best values), and they immediately run great. I use the performance of Kato or Atlas engines on DC as my "smoothness standard", and in my opinion, these meet that.

To be clear, the CVs I shared were based on a "fresh" decoder (new or reset), with everything set to factory defaults. If you've previously altered other CVs and are still not getting the performance you want, I'd suggest doing a reset before starting this process.

I was glad to hear Tom M. say that his latest example ran so well right out of the package. Hopefully Tsunami has made some changes to their defaults.



Joe Atkinson


Modeling Iowa Interstate's West End, Spring 2005
http://www.iaisrailfans.org/gallery/Sub4WestEnd

Edited by - IAISfan on 2011 December 02 1:27:16 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 878 Go to Top of Page

canrailfan

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  2:46:47 PM  Show Profile
Tom M.

Like you, I've installed Tsunami TSU-1000s in several Atlas GP40-2s and I'm generally pleased with the results.

However, I'm trying to find a solution for a very annoying problem on these units. The slow speed operation is quite good and very smooth, until the headlight is turned on! With the headlight on, the locomotive starts 'cogging', it runs a few inches at the set speed, then slows noticeably, then runs at speed again. Turn the headlight off and the speed is once again smooth and constant.

I've experimented with an FDL and a 251 TSU-1000 and they have the same problem. I don't see this problem with the TSU-AT1000 Tsunamis I have in other locomotives.

Have you experienced or heard of this problem with the TSU-1000s? Has anyone posted on this before? I searched but nothing came up.

Thanks,

David


Modeling the Three C's -
CN, CP, CR

Country: Canada | Posts: 105 Go to Top of Page

Tom M.

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  4:03:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom M.'s Homepage
David,

A few questions first.

1) Did you remove the two brown "caps" that were soldered to the motor leads and motor case?

2) Did you interface the TSU-1000 with the existing front headlight LED mount/circuit.

3) Did you interface the TSU-1000 with the existing rear headlight LED mount/circuit?

4) Did you remove the two large capacitors from the rear headlight board?

I hope you are not offended by my questions. I'm trying to get an understanding of how you did the installation. On my loco, the answer to all the above questions was yes.

I tested the loco for quite some time last evening because the owner is scheduled to pick it up this coming Tuesday. There was one time when the loco exhibited some mildly erratic control, but I believe I traced that back to some dirty track. I ran the loco for about 20 minutes pulling a 15 car train and didn't detect any operational issues during that time. I guess I will run it some more over the weekend to see if exhibits any of the traits you indicate. I'll also search the SoundTraxx Yahoo group postings to see if anyone else has reported/corrected this issue.

Tom
quote:
Originally posted by canrailfan

Tom M.

Like you, I've installed Tsunami TSU-1000s in several Atlas GP40-2s and I'm generally pleased with the results.

However, I'm trying to find a solution for a very annoying problem on these units. The slow speed operation is quite good and very smooth, until the headlight is turned on! With the headlight on, the locomotive starts 'cogging', it runs a few inches at the set speed, then slows noticeably, then runs at speed again. Turn the headlight off and the speed is once again smooth and constant.

I've experimented with an FDL and a 251 TSU-1000 and they have the same problem. I don't see this problem with the TSU-AT1000 Tsunamis I have in other locomotives.

Have you experienced or heard of this problem with the TSU-1000s? Has anyone posted on this before? I searched but nothing came up.

Thanks,

David





Edited by - Tom M. on 2011 December 02 4:05:27 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 1150 Go to Top of Page

el3637

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  5:26:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit el3637's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by canrailfan
However, I'm trying to find a solution for a very annoying problem on these units. The slow speed operation is quite good and very smooth, until the headlight is turned on! With the headlight on, the locomotive starts 'cogging', it runs a few inches at the set speed, then slows noticeably, then runs at speed again. Turn the headlight off and the speed is once again smooth and constant.



Interesting. When I have an ABBA set of Tsunamis, only the lead unit has the light on but I've never noticed any difference.

One strange quirk of the Athunami is that it has the Mars light (on Warbonnets) wired to F5. I can configure it as a Mars light and all, but when I hit F5 to turn it on, it not only turns on the Mars light but also causes a notch-up which should be F9. Does it pretty much every time, the first time I hit F5. I don't remember if it does it subsequent times if I hit it again. Or if it affects the other units in the consist.

I don't think this affects the Tsunami (non-Athearn) that I installed myself in a Genesis F. But probably because I put the Mars light on a different function - F3 I think rather than F5. Need to get it out and compare.

Andy



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Ken Rice

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  5:47:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ken Rice's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by IAISfan
Please let me know if I can help at all Ken. I could never pass as a DCC expert, but I'm happy to share what's worked well for me. In spite of my gripes about Athearn Geep dimensional errors, I rank performance at the top of my personal "must have" list for locomotives, so I'm not using the word "outstanding" lightly.

Historically jerky Tsunami performance out of the box isn't what I personally find to be acceptable - I'd rather have LokSound or QSI sound ...



I would never lump QSI and Loksound into the same performance bracket - loksound is way better, in my opinion.

Here's a video I made a while back of two O scale Atlas switchers that use basically identical mechanisms (single horizontal motor with same sized flywheels and 15:1 gearing):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZAyHuJ0XvU

The near one is running with a zimo decoder, and has the smoothness that I shoot for with any loco. The far one has a QSI decoder. Both are going as slowly and as smoothly as I was able to configure the decoders to do. When I was messing with replacing the QSI decoder in the read one with a tsunami, I was able to get it into the same ballpark as the the video shows the read loco doing, but not close to the performance of the zimo in the front loco. I've gotten loksound decoders to run almost as smoothly as the zimo.

Thanks for your offer of help - I may take you up on it next time I try a tsunami.

Ken.


My blog: http://rices-rails.blogspot.com/

Country: USA | Posts: 1093 Go to Top of Page

IAISfan

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  6:09:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit IAISfan's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Rice
I would never lump QSI and Loksound into the same performance bracket - loksound is way better, in my opinion.


Sorry - I don't own any QSI's to compare, but I'm happy with the Loksound in my M420R.



Joe Atkinson


Modeling Iowa Interstate's West End, Spring 2005
http://www.iaisrailfans.org/gallery/Sub4WestEnd

Country: USA | Posts: 878 Go to Top of Page

Tom M.

Posted - 2011 December 02 :  10:36:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom M.'s Homepage
David,

I did additional testing with the TSU-1000. At very low throttle settings I did experience the cogging action you mention with the LED headlight turned on.

The loco smoothly crawls at DCC speed step 1. However, I turned on the headlight and I got the cogging. It became very apparent when I coupled a very free rolling Tangent gondola to the loco. I could see the coupler's dance. Once I got up to speed step 7 I did not see the problem to the same extent.

Now the quest is truly on to find the solution.

Tom




quote:
Originally posted by canrailfan

Tom M.

Like you, I've installed Tsunami TSU-1000s in several Atlas GP40-2s and I'm generally pleased with the results.

However, I'm trying to find a solution for a very annoying problem on these units. The slow speed operation is quite good and very smooth, until the headlight is turned on! With the headlight on, the locomotive starts 'cogging', it runs a few inches at the set speed, then slows noticeably, then runs at speed again. Turn the headlight off and the speed is once again smooth and constant.

I've experimented with an FDL and a 251 TSU-1000 and they have the same problem. I don't see this problem with the TSU-AT1000 Tsunamis I have in other locomotives.

Have you experienced or heard of this problem with the TSU-1000s? Has anyone posted on this before? I searched but nothing came up.

Thanks,

David





Country: USA | Posts: 1150 Go to Top of Page

canrailfan

Posted - 2011 December 04 :  6:33:08 PM  Show Profile
Tom M.

Thanks for your responses to my post.

All the units I've installed the Tsunamis in are 'Atlas Master Series - Silver' units.

In answer to your first and fourth questions, none of these capacitors were present in these units.

To answer your second and third questions, yes, I used the existing headlight and rear light circuits/LEDs. I separated the number board and ditch light connections from the headlight circuit and put them on Functions 5 and 6. None of this required any special work.

I have two more units to do so I'll take some photos when I start to do the install and post them for you to look at.

I'm somewhat relieved to hear you've observed the same behaviour, perhaps two heads will be better than one in looking for a solution.

I've posted a similar message on the Soundtraxx Forum on Yahoo Groups to see if anyone else has noticed this problem.

Cheers,

David


Modeling the Three C's -
CN, CP, CR

Country: Canada | Posts: 105 Go to Top of Page

Tom M.

Posted - 2011 December 05 :  2:08:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom M.'s Homepage
David,
Dave,

I got the answer from SoundTraxx tech support. The problem only affects TSU-1000 series decoders used with Digitrax systems. It does not happen with any of the replacement board type decoders.

The fix is to disconnect the blue common wire from the front and rear headlight. In its place, you tap into the red wire that connects to the stay alive capacitor.

The red wire to the stay alive capacitor is also positive, but unlike the blue wire is not connected to the motor control circuit. As such, it is not impacted by the Digitrax motor control signal.

Regards,

Tom

quote:
Originally posted by canrailfan

Tom M.

Like you, I've installed Tsunami TSU-1000s in several Atlas GP40-2s and I'm generally pleased with the results.

However, I'm trying to find a solution for a very annoying problem on these units. The slow speed operation is quite good and very smooth, until the headlight is turned on! With the headlight on, the locomotive starts 'cogging', it runs a few inches at the set speed, then slows noticeably, then runs at speed again. Turn the headlight off and the speed is once again smooth and constant.

I've experimented with an FDL and a 251 TSU-1000 and they have the same problem. I don't see this problem with the TSU-AT1000 Tsunamis I have in other locomotives.

Have you experienced or heard of this problem with the TSU-1000s? Has anyone posted on this before? I searched but nothing came up.

Thanks,

David





Country: USA | Posts: 1150 Go to Top of Page

canrailfan

Posted - 2011 December 05 :  7:35:17 PM  Show Profile
Tom,

The information from Soundtraxx Support is certainly interesting. I would not have expected the problem to be isolated to one DCC system as I thought the signal on the rails was governed by the NMRA DCC Standards and RPs, which should ensure all manufacturer's systems send the same signals to the mobile decoder for motor operation.

You'll be pleased to learn that, yes, my system is Digitrax! I'd hate to complicate things further by saying I had some other system.

I'll try the fix that was suggested.

Now I'm curious to learn what it is in the Digitrax signal that makes the TSU-1000 behave this way. Also, is Soundtraxx going to correct the problem on future TSU-1000s?

Thanks for your assistance.

David


Modeling the Three C's -
CN, CP, CR

Country: Canada | Posts: 105 Go to Top of Page

Tom M.

Posted - 2011 December 05 :  10:01:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom M.'s Homepage
David,

From what the support rep said, there is currently no plan to alter the TSU-1000 to address the problem. This is apparently based on the fact that the workaround is so easy to implement.

Tom

quote:
Originally posted by canrailfan

Tom,

The information from Soundtraxx Support is certainly interesting. I would not have expected the problem to be isolated to one DCC system as I thought the signal on the rails was governed by the NMRA DCC Standards and RPs, which should ensure all manufacturer's systems send the same signals to the mobile decoder for motor operation.

You'll be pleased to learn that, yes, my system is Digitrax! I'd hate to complicate things further by saying I had some other system.

I'll try the fix that was suggested.

Now I'm curious to learn what it is in the Digitrax signal that makes the TSU-1000 behave this way. Also, is Soundtraxx going to correct the problem on future TSU-1000s?

Thanks for your assistance.

David





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