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 PRR approach restricting & absolute stop signals.
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INRAIL

Posted - 2011 November 01 :  11:53:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My shortline L&IN was formed from a former Conrail/Penn Central/PRR branch line. I use PRR style signals. I needed a couple of the APPROACH RESTRICTING signals that are basically distant signals. I also needed four of the PRR ABSOLUTE STOP or "RED EYES" (as some called them) signals. No one makes a RTR PRR signal with the RED EYES that I needed for a couple of my diamonds. You will also never find a RTR "specialty" type of signal like the APPROACH RESTRICTING."

Enter Oregon Rail Supply signals. The neat thing about these signals are you can scratch built just about any kind of unique signal you want AND they look great!!! They are easy to build too.

I started my approach signal by cutting off some of the signal visors that are not needed, sanding the areas down, and covering the holes that were left (no lights) with thin Evergreen styrene blanks punched out using a paper punch purchased from a good art store. You won't find this size of paper punch anywhere else. Then I built the signal per instructions. It's not hard at all. I then added the small individual light farther down the pole by simply cutting down a searchlight target head from another Oregon Rail Supply kit. You can purchase these separately too. I painted my signal a rusty color first and allowed them to dry for a day. Next, I added some spots of Burnt Sienna oil paint to resist the final coat of black paint that will become rust spots. Then I painted my signal black. Immediately after applying the black paint, I took some masking tape and stuck the tape to the signal head and pole pulling off the black paint where the oil paint was applied. What is left is some pretty neat pealed black paint patches with rust showing from underneath.

OK, some photos. Tom Johnson









The finished signal.





Here are the Absolute Stop "red eyes" PRR signals.





Yes, there is more detail I could have added to these signals. I simply wanted to keep them simple while at the same time looking good. A couple of these signals in my area were added in later years and seemed to be simple in appearance compared to some from years back. They didn't have all of those supports by the platforms and ladder all the way up to the top of the signal like the older ones.


Country: USA | Posts: 898

fiend540

Posted - 2011 November 02 :  12:50:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Reminds me of the ones on Conrail's Buffalo line that ran behind my childhood home, awesome job!


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keystonecrossings

Posted - 2011 November 02 :  05:40:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very well done!

---------------------------
Jerry
Pennsy: http://kc.pennsyrr.com
PRR News Feed: http://new.pennsyrr.com
PRR Middle Division in HO: http://jbritton.pennsyrr.com

Country: USA | Posts: 3373 Go to Top of Page

Georgia Railroader

Posted - 2011 November 02 :  09:30:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very nice work.


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Bluebox

Posted - 2011 November 02 :  7:49:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice to see "real" PRR signals manual block style. Lets see one as the "approach/caution" style with just the 2 45-degree aspects (like the one you made, but with the mirror image as well). They were on the manual block passenger lines on the LIRR and PRSL and some PRR territory as well. K-Cards, anyone??...now maybe a block-limit signal, in PRR? (with the reflectorized letters, of course!) I'd think a Tomar lit marker lamp with the housing out of styrene and the dummy lamps either side of it would be a start...toooo muccch caaafffeeinnne is bad for a Pennsy signal freak...

You may proceed as though restricting was displayed..

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pennsy813

Posted - 2011 November 02 :  8:33:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit pennsy813's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wowsers, chief!

Fantastic job indeed!



http://www.olivechapel.net/

Country: USA | Posts: 249 Go to Top of Page

INRAIL

Posted - 2011 November 02 :  9:28:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PRR signal aspects. Mine are outlined in red.



RULE 285a. Approach Restricting. Indication: Proceed prepared to stop at hand-operated switches and at next signal. Train exceeding Medium Speed must begin reduction to Medium Speed as soon as engine passes Approach Restricting signal.

RULE 292. Stop Signal. Stop!

The above signals are the two types I'm modeling on my railroad. I only have absolute stop at diamonds and their related approach restricting signals further out from my diamonds. That's all I need on my railroad. At diamonds, they should always be "red eyes." It's been this way here in Indiana since the late PRR years and into PC and Conrail. Not sure what they used out east. Like I've always said, you model what was seen in your area. It may not be the same everywhere.

Anyone else care to share information? I'd love to hear if things were different in your area or when things changed for the PRR aspects.



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red P

Posted - 2011 November 02 :  9:54:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit red P's Homepage  Reply with Quote
When I worked out of Fort Wayne on the Chicago pool there were PRR position signals on the what we called the PC side (which was track warrant territory).
We would encounter an Approch Distant prior to the diamond at Warsaw. There was also an Approach Distant at Piqua in Fort Wayne prior to the interlocker at Mike.
P



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dmitzel

Posted - 2011 November 03 :  08:36:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit dmitzel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tom,

Absolutely stunning work! I am a signal aficionado, and am also modeling a light-duty, secondary line that cannot justify ABS or CTC - so the occasional interlocking and needed approach/distant signals are right up my alley.

Even though I'm up here in NYC territory those PRR signals are awfully tempting! How are you wiring the interlocking circuit for operation? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks for sharing - your work is absolutely (pun intended) inspiring.


D.M. Mitzel
Oxford, MI
Div. 8-NCR-NMRA

Visit my blog at http://danmitzel.blogspot.com/

Country: USA | Posts: 759 Go to Top of Page

TREBOR

Posted - 2011 November 03 :  09:42:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the approach distant would indicate comming up to a possible absolute stop indication as a "wake up" alert to crew. A fixed yellow ahead of a red absolute. The home signal in question could be stop 292 or a more permissive indication up to a clear even though the distant approach is always yellow. This is on other roads. Your use of the PRR rule does seem very appropriate. Although the meaning of restricted versus restricted approach overlaps or is blurred.

On the C&NW, I think aproach restricted is a more permissive indication that would precede a restricted signal but NOT a 292 stop and stay. This restricted approach would tell crew home signal is at least a restricted "CALL ON" and not a stop.

Bob " I passed the C&NW signal test" but flunked the rest.


DIAPHONE 32'

Edited by - TREBOR on 2011 November 03 10:06:56 AM

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TREBOR

Posted - 2011 November 03 :  10:01:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW as an addenda to the restricted aspect discussion, some roads use lunar white while others use R/R/Y or R/Y as restricted. This may have been the cause of the Amtrak collision in Chicago in the NS? yard in recent year or two. Engineers worked that train over several roads I believe.

CSX uses R/R/L R/L L/R/R R/L/R in various situations. I think at the location of the collision, NS had a R/Y meaning restricted 15mph or less able to stop short of equipment/track condition. Engineer may have interpreted as medium approach, usually 35mph.

kaboom.......


DIAPHONE 32'

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dmitzel

Posted - 2011 November 03 :  10:25:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit dmitzel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TREBOR

I think the approach distant would indicate comming up to a possible absolute stop indication as a "wake up" alert to crew. A fixed yellow ahead of a red absolute. The home signal in question could be stop 292 or a more permissive indication up to a clear even though the distant approach is always yellow. This is on other roads. Your use of the PRR rule does seem very appropriate. Although the meaning of restricted versus restricted approach overlaps or is blurred.

On the C&NW, I think aproach restricted is a more permissive indication that would precede a restricted signal but NOT a 292 stop and stay. This restricted approach would tell crew home signal is at least a restricted "CALL ON" and not a stop.

Bob " I passed the C&NW signal test" but flunked the rest.



I think the whole point under NORAC rules to use "RULE 285a. Approach Restricting" for a distant signal in this application is that the fixed signal does not govern the status of the track between the distant/approach signal and the home or absolute signal. In other words, it is not a block signal that displays occupancy in the track following it - especially since it is a fixed indication in this case as well.


D.M. Mitzel
Oxford, MI
Div. 8-NCR-NMRA

Visit my blog at http://danmitzel.blogspot.com/

Country: USA | Posts: 759 Go to Top of Page

Tom

Posted - 2011 November 05 :  5:09:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A question:

What diameter of a punch did you use so I know what size to purchase?

Signals look very good. I have a couple of interlocking plants and a level grade crossing on my Penn Central (ex PRR) so I will have to start buying some of these.

What power supply do you use for these?



Edited by - Tom on 2011 November 05 5:11:50 PM

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INRAIL

Posted - 2011 November 05 :  6:01:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Tom. I got my punch from a good art store. Wally World and places like that won't have them. It doesn't say anywhere on the punch as to what size it is. I measured it and it's 1/8" across. It's a bit bigger than the two blanks already molded into the Oregon Rail Supply heads. However, there are no other punch sizes out there slightly smaller than this one. Plus, it beats cutting out those little circles with scissors! LOL!!!!!! After I cut off the visors I didn't need, and also shaved off the two blanks already molded on. Then I took my punched out blanks and glued them in place over the holes that will not have signals in them plus over the two areas I shaved off. That way all of your blanks are the same size. Use a plastic cement so you can wiggle that blanks around a bit to center them. This can become a mess if you use too much glue. A little goes a long way.

I used a Radio Shack 1.5 volt to 12 volt power supply. I has a dial on it so you can have 1.5 on up to 12 volts. I still used resistors for safety. I don't want to burn out my LED's. I ran two buss wires from my power source and simply fed off of them were I have signals. I run my crossing flashers off of the buss wires too. I run my signals with toggle switches. It gives you more freedom to create situations plus with crossing flashers, I like activating them with a toggle. Sensors can be troublesome at times.

Hope all of this helps. Tom



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FURX

Posted - 2011 November 05 :  6:43:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit FURX's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Somehow I missed this post Tom. Just wanted to say awesome work, that signal looks great.

We do encounter an "Approach Restricting" on an old PRR signal when leaving the unsignaled Pope's Creek. The next signal we encounter is a pot signal guarding the entrance to the Amtrak NEC.

The approach restricting signal has the same function as the APP marker signals we encounter other places on the B&O.


www.youtube.com/user/gp30rdmt

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dmitzel

Posted - 2011 November 05 :  11:46:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit dmitzel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the additional detail on the electrical piece. I like the idea of just using a toggle or slide switch to control them - less wiring headaches, and just fine for a smaller layout. K.I.S.S. and all.

Just as an aside I've heard that the prototype crews called the red absolute aspects "Snake Eyes" when they approached a stop indication. Not sure if this was PRR, PC or CR lingo, or even regional for that matter. Thought it was kind of neat, though.


D.M. Mitzel
Oxford, MI
Div. 8-NCR-NMRA

Visit my blog at http://danmitzel.blogspot.com/

Country: USA | Posts: 759 Go to Top of Page
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