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fordhamroad

Posted - 2011 October 08 :  10:48:53 PM  Show Profile
-Lionel HO trains
-a friend just acquired a set. Is it worth fixing up or too outmoded. I know lots of people run Lionel O scale, but does anyone run Lionel HO? Are they worth keeping, fixing, or selling?

Thanks

Roger

Country: USA | Posts: 804

AustralianTerrier

Posted - 2011 October 08 :  11:03:10 PM  Show Profile
Depending upon the cars, condition and if it has its original Lionel boxes, it may have some collectible value.

As far as using it for modeling purposes other than nostalgic operation, it is poor at best. The freight cars are all talgo trucks, the locomotives are crude as are most of the freight cars. By the early 1960's the quality of the Lionel HO scale trains was pretty bad. Lionel had one foot in the grave and another on a bananna peel at the time the HO was released.

I'd sell the set, but don't expect much if it isn't in mint condition with the original boxes. E-Bay has a lot of HO Lionel listed all the time so look at the prices and condition of the completed listings to get a handle on price.


Jim

"It's a question of methods. Everybody wants results, but nobody wants to do what they have to do to get them done." - Clint Eastwood as Inspector "Dirty" Harry Callahan


Country: USA | Posts: 2278 Go to Top of Page

wjstix

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  3:26:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit wjstix's Homepage
Keep in mind Lionel has entered (and withdrawn) from the HO market several times going back to the 1950's (or even longer if you count their OO trains from the 1930's).

If you're talking about an original "in the box" mint condition HO train set from 1957 it could be worth a decent amount of money. If it's from the seventies it probably would be worth less, though a few items (like the Bicentenial train) are collectible.

Lionel last was in HO in the early 2000's and made a few pretty good engines like the UP Turbine.

I don't think any HO Lionel trains were made directly by Lionel in the US, I think they were all built by other companies, sometimes overseas.


Stix

BNSF / CP to you...CB&Q / Milwaukee Road to me !!

Country: USA | Posts: 2266 Go to Top of Page

el3637

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  4:15:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit el3637's Homepage
Like Stix said, Lionel has had at least four separate forays into HO scale. The most recent did not involve train sets though, so if you have an actual "train set" - as in a boxed set all under the Lionel label - it is from no later than the late 1970s. It's more or less generic trainset type stuff, nothing of any value. Comparable in quality to the stuff being sold by AHM, Life-Like, and Bachmann at the same time.

If you have older Lionel HO from the 50s or early 60s, that might be worth more or at least be more interesting to hang on to. Can you post some pics? Do you have boxes?

It's also likely that if there are more than a few pieces, some of them - or maybe most of them - are not Lionel but other manufacturers. Mixing brands is common in HO scale and always has been, unlike the glory days of Lionel O when every single piece came from an orange box with a big stylized L on it.

Andy



Country: USA | Posts: 7422 Go to Top of Page

el3637

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  4:17:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit el3637's Homepage
Actually there is one Lionel HO set from the 70s that is worth something - that would be the American Freedom Train. But if that's what you had you probably would have mentioned that first...

Andy



Country: USA | Posts: 7422 Go to Top of Page

Spikre

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  4:27:18 PM  Show Profile

Dont forget the Camera FA set from the late 80s,that makes 5 Times they entered HO.
but that one was really part of the O ans S Camera Loco fling of about 1989.
1957 Lionel was Rivorossi made stuff,58 was mostly Athearn produced stuff.
59 Lionel started producing thier Own HO items some were reworked Hobbyline and
John English items bought at the Bankruptcy sale.
so a Hot item from back them is the PRR Rectifer using an Athearn produced body
on a Lionel GP drive.
have seen them priced at $200.00+ in the mid 90s,not sure if they still get
that sort of price today ?
Spikre


Erie,America's 1st Trunk Line !!
Piermont N.Y. to Dunkirk N.Y.,1848 !!!
Waiting For Skip's Train To Pull Into Hillside Station !!



Country: USA | Posts: 5356 Go to Top of Page

el3637

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  5:28:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit el3637's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Spikre
so a Hot item from back them is the PRR Rectifer using an Athearn produced body
on a Lionel GP drive.



I have one of them with an Athearn rubber band drive.

I keep stumbling across more interesting Lionel HO stuff I never saw before... a simple ebay search on "Lionel HO" yields a lot of interesting stuff. As always value depends on rarity and condition.

Back in 1977, I was forced to buy an entire Lionel "Burlington 181" train set in order to get the Moyers GP30... and all I wanted was the shell, the drive was worthless. It wasn't sold separately by Lionel - ever I think - that didn't happen until it ended up with Bachmann. I think I paid $52 for the train set to get the shell, but I later found a broken open set at a K-Mart and the store manager graciously sold me the GP30 for $10.

I think I still have at least one car from that set, still in the original box... the clamshell coil car. I got a kick out of it because inside the clamshell was a steel coil load, that looked more like a hollow plastic tootsie roll. It had a blue GT box car, and a BN green caboose that was a clone of the Athearn ATSF caboose or close to it. Forget what else.

That reminds me I need to reply to an email from Jerry Moyers... I got to meet him for the first time during Summerail this year, after all these years a couple of GP30 fanatics finally hook up.

Andy



Country: USA | Posts: 7422 Go to Top of Page

Spikre

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  5:44:40 PM  Show Profile

Andy,
about 1978/79 Hobbies For Men bought up the remaing Lionel GP30s and U18Bs.
they dumped them for $7.99 apiece.
we happened to be up at the Waldwick Homestead so after seeing the MR ad we drove over the Tappen Zee Bridge then headed up RT-9 to Beacon NY.
recall getting 2 GP30s and 1 or 2 U18Bs.
the GP30 Shell was the Draw !!
about 77 Sears had Seperate GP30s for about $12.99 in the Christmas catologs.
ordered at least 1,but was sent a note they werent available after waiting awhile.
did get one out of a broken trainset also after that Christmas,think it was Sears,but could have been Penny's,K-Mart or Woolco ??
dont recall actually.
also did get a broken into COX Sears Container Train set with plenty of loaders and conveyers.
also a COX "Big Pine" lumber set,both were $20.00 or less,both had the Chop Nosed GP7s.
the yellow Big Pine had stamped metal railings,while the Rock Island had Delrin railings.
neither ran that well,but better than Tyco Power Torque locos.
Spikre


Erie,America's 1st Trunk Line !!
Piermont N.Y. to Dunkirk N.Y.,1848 !!!
Waiting For Skip's Train To Pull Into Hillside Station !!



Country: USA | Posts: 5356 Go to Top of Page

ATSFAN

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  6:21:57 PM  Show Profile
Lionel offered a Challenger and a Turbine. I think both were actually delivered in HO a few years back. But then Lionel abruptly departed the HO market again.

For a while they had a clearance sale on the Turbines, which are nice models if you can find one.



Country: | Posts: 2930 Go to Top of Page

Spikre

Posted - 2011 October 11 :  6:56:00 PM  Show Profile

Andy,
Athearn molded the Rectifer shells for Lionel until DQed after the 1963 Christmas season.
if it has Rubber Band Hi-F drive it is an Athearn loco and worth about 1/2 of a Lionel one.
not sure why,but then Collecters are an Odd Lot any way.
they could also be had with Athearn Geared GP7 drive,but have never seen one in person.
and they may be just Switched Drives by the Owners ?
the Lionel version should have 2 neoprene belts powering geared axles.
this was an Up-Date of the Hobbyline drive used in thier H10-44 and Alco FA-1s.
it is possible that some early Rectifers did have Athearn drives,but the Road names
would be different.
check Athearn and Lionel HO lists to see what each produced.
it seems that Lionel took over complete production of thier HO line during 64.
that is possibly why they never produced Rectifer shells themselves ?
and only the GPs after the 63 season.
Spikre


Erie,America's 1st Trunk Line !!
Piermont N.Y. to Dunkirk N.Y.,1848 !!!
Waiting For Skip's Train To Pull Into Hillside Station !!



Country: USA | Posts: 5356 Go to Top of Page

Fred Moehrle

Posted - 2011 October 12 :  09:39:45 AM  Show Profile
Actually, Athearn provided the freight cars to Lionel back in the '60s, maybe earlier.

Athearn themselves admitted that when they accidentally released a bunch of gon's with the Lionel circle L on them.

Somebody grabbed the old paint pad by mistake, and no-one noticed until people started to buy the BB kits and raised the hue & cry.
This was in the late '90s.


Modern loco's!?! We don't need no modern Loco's.
We need Alco's!

Country: | Posts: 2285 Go to Top of Page

Spikre

Posted - 2011 October 12 :  12:28:39 PM  Show Profile


Fred,
the Lionel-Athearn working relationship Ended near the end of 62 to the End of 63.
Old Stock could be in warehouses for Years as Lionel HO never really took off.
the kids across the street got a new Lionel-Rivorossi SP C-Liner near Christmas 62.
the Rivorossi connection was severed during 1958.
Cars that were sold by both Lionel and Athearn had the L in a Circle thru the 60s.
the 50' Piggyback Flat was one such car,look at a Wabash body for the Lionel Styled L in a Circle.
there is much Smoke and Mirrors surrounding Lionel HO,and Doubt all the Answers
will ever be known,or answered Satisfactorly.
Spikre


Erie,America's 1st Trunk Line !!
Piermont N.Y. to Dunkirk N.Y.,1848 !!!
Waiting For Skip's Train To Pull Into Hillside Station !!



Edited by - Spikre on 2011 October 12 2:16:12 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 5356 Go to Top of Page

el3637

Posted - 2011 October 12 :  12:35:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit el3637's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Fred Moehrle
Somebody grabbed the old paint pad by mistake, and no-one noticed until people started to buy the BB kits and raised the hue & cry.
This was in the late '90s.



Now that would be an interesting oops to have in your collection...

Andy



Country: USA | Posts: 7422 Go to Top of Page

el3637

Posted - 2011 October 12 :  12:44:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit el3637's Homepage
Retrospection... I really only have had a handful of Lionel HO items in my possession. We've established that my VGN rectifier was probably Athearn badged, since it had a Hi-F drive. I obtained this secondhand, in the 70s so I don't really know its origin. I had two pieces for sure when I was a little kid - the "exploding box car", which I believe was based on the Hobbyline tooling, and a silver Santa Fe coach, that was similar to the Mantua/Tyco cars in construction - one piece plastic body with a stamped metal floor, and diecast trucks with lighting.

Then the GP30 set I described earlier from 1977 or 78... I never owned any of the steam locos... the GS-4 Freedom Train ended up in Bachmann's product line, but I don't think B-company ever re-issued the AFT cars, which were somewhat unique to that set. Never had the camera thingy - did they make anything else to go along with it? And I didn't buy any of their 21st century output - both products ended up being done better by Athearn (Challenger and Veranda) so I'm glad I passed on the Lionel.

I *may* have picked up one of the Lionel geep shells with or without drive somewhere. Seems like I was looking at one and haggling but I honestly don't remember if I bought it or not, will just have to look. The train shop needs a cleaning and re-org anyway... too much stuff, much of it can be moved to the basement to give me some breathing room. The shop is a bedroom, with the sliding doors removed from the closet so I could put a couple of tall shelving units in there... plus plenty of other shelves around the room. Anything new I buy tends to go there first, as well as anything I pull to work on on source for parts.

I still haven't done even the entrance page for my on-line diesel shell museum. Lisle is next week, so I doubt if I'll be working on the web site any time before this round of weekend shows... three in a row (Naperville/Lisle, Cincinnati/Lakota, and Dayton/Hara).

Andy



Country: USA | Posts: 7422 Go to Top of Page

el3637

Posted - 2011 October 12 :  12:45:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit el3637's Homepage
BTW, I am still curious what the OP in this thread actually has...

Andy



Country: USA | Posts: 7422 Go to Top of Page

Spikre

Posted - 2011 October 12 :  1:00:42 PM  Show Profile

Andy,
the Tooling for the GS-4 was Leased to Lionel by a Gent from Ohio.
Later He ran Omicon S Scale Models.
talked to Him at a Show about 1980,about 1972 He tried to enter the HO Market with decaled Athearn cars,,,Lima Models.
He also completed Tooling for a Lima LS-12 Road Switcher,but couldnt come up with the funds
for a Drive for it.
it would have used the old FAT Athearn motors,a bit overly wide !!
Lionel Leased the GS-4 Tooling and had KADER produce the drive for it.
so He got into S as the competition was much less fierce there.
and used the GS lease funds to start Omicom.
He may have also owned the ATSF Northern tooling,and NYC Niagara Tooling,but never
got a complete answer on them.
believe that eventually all that Tooling was sold to Kader.
He also owned the Plastic Roof Blanks to use on various lenght Wathers Passenger kits.
but somehow lost that Tooling to Nickle Plate Products after a Court battle.
very Intresting conversation !!
Spikre


Erie,America's 1st Trunk Line !!
Piermont N.Y. to Dunkirk N.Y.,1848 !!!
Waiting For Skip's Train To Pull Into Hillside Station !!



Country: USA | Posts: 5356 Go to Top of Page
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