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MLRR

Posted - 2011 June 02 :  08:02:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit MLRR's Homepage
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a direct link but True Line Trains has updated their site with regards to info on the MP36/40. There's now a full page in the locomotive section which includes photos of the sample model (in GO Transit colors) and pictures of the different roads to be modeled.

It looks like the MSRP may have dropped again too (since March anyway) according to this page but I'll have to confirm that as it may just be the street price shown. The release date is still listed as TBD but this update to the site is a sign that we're closer than we've ever been in the last 3 years to seeing these bad boys finally hit the market!
~Kyle

The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains
Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........

www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update:1/30/12)

Edited by - MLRR on 2012 January 30 12:02:13 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 934

MLRR

Posted - 2011 June 02 :  09:31:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit MLRR's Homepage
Correction! The MSRP has NOT changed for the DCC Sound version. It is still $375.

~Kyle

The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains
Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........

www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update:1/30/12)

Country: USA | Posts: 934 Go to Top of Page

MLRR

Posted - 2011 June 07 :  12:37:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit MLRR's Homepage
They uploaded a new video a few days ago. Check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/user/truelinetrains

Also, has anyone else noticed that a number of online dealers have removed it from their databases? I can't find them on Toy Train Heaven's website.


~Kyle

The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains
Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........

www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update:1/30/12)

Country: USA | Posts: 934 Go to Top of Page

Nebrzephyr

Posted - 2011 June 07 :  3:53:26 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by MLRR


Also, has anyone else noticed that a number of online dealers have removed it from their databases? I can't find them on Toy Train Heaven's website.


If was listed previously it may mean they have sold out on what they have ordered from TLT.



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TLT

Posted - 2011 June 07 :  8:08:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit TLT's Homepage
Hi All,
The reason you have seen a lot of on-line dealers remove the items from their listing is simply because they are not selling them. We are no longer selling to HORIZON HOBBY or HOBBYTYME - however you can order directly from us or from WALTHERS in the USA. There are lots of US MP36 units still available. But they will be after the MP40s!
Thanks
Darren


True Line Trains
Hobbycraft Canada Ltd
445 Edgeley Blvd, Unit #1
Concord, Ontario L4K 4G1

Country: Canada | Posts: 16 Go to Top of Page

MLRR

Posted - 2011 June 08 :  05:59:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit MLRR's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by TLT

Hi All,
The reason you have seen a lot of on-line dealers remove the items from their listing is simply because they are not selling them. We are no longer selling to HORIZON HOBBY or HOBBYTYME - however you can order directly from us or from WALTHERS in the USA. There are lots of US MP36 units still available. But they will be after the MP40s!
Thanks
Darren



Oh I see. I suspected that but I didn't want to put that out there without at least hearing it from a credible source.

Thanks for clearing that up!

What is the expected lag time between the MP40s and the MP36s?


~Kyle

The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains
Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........

www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update:1/30/12)

Country: USA | Posts: 934 Go to Top of Page

TLT

Posted - 2011 June 08 :  07:41:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit TLT's Homepage
As soon as we see a sample with the MP36 variations, we will tell you. We are very close, but realistically still a month or two if not more away.

True Line Trains
Hobbycraft Canada Ltd
445 Edgeley Blvd, Unit #1
Concord, Ontario L4K 4G1

Country: Canada | Posts: 16 Go to Top of Page

apl1031

Posted - 2011 June 20 :  1:15:59 PM  Show Profile
I got an email back from TLT, and they said the dc GO Transit MP40 is completed and they are off to China to verify this.


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ri_e8_652

Posted - 2011 June 22 :  12:18:11 AM  Show Profile
Now for some appropriate rolling stock.

Might help sales....


Tom Klimczak
Lemont, IL
...CC115 at JOLIET...got my signal from UD tower and now...heading east!

Country: USA | Posts: 298 Go to Top of Page

MLRR

Posted - 2011 June 23 :  07:02:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit MLRR's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by ri_e8_652

Now for some appropriate rolling stock.

Might help sales....




This is one of the frustrating things that I've observed about this industry. Lack of coordination between manufacturers. Based on patterns I've seen, they don't seem to necessarily be competing with each other (just looking at what products they offer). They almost seem complimentary. Sure there are some overlaps and comparisons that can be drawn at times but overall, the only point in which I can see potential competition is one manufacturer beating another to the "Punch" which is why I can see why manufacturers will be secretive about certain things (even if they have exclusive rights to a particular paint scheme, etc.)

What mostly frustrates is two-fold. A manufactuers produces a locomotive, and has clearly moved forward with production (in some cases has released the model years ago) and so you have sales numbers to go off of. Those sales numbers can give a rough estimate of how well the complimentary rollingstock will sell. One would think that if the model sold well, it would be a no-brainer to do the cars to go with it if not by the same manufacturer, a different one that perhaps is more capable and experienced in producing passenger equipment. The other thing to consider is that more often than not, one will need more than one car to make up a train so one could estimate a minimum of three trailing units for each locomotive sold. I'm sure it's more complex than that and speaking as one who is willing to listen and learn (and not respond with a "know-it-all" response after the fact) I wish more representatives were open about the business side behind these decisions. I'm actually insulted when I go to some booths and the rep gives me the general run-around despite my specific questions (some of which are "probing" in order to get a better understanding of the decision process in general).

**Just to be clear TLT was VERY helpful when I spoke with them back in January so I am NOT referring to them.**

The other side of the coin that frustrates me (and people are free to do what they want) is that those modelers that are interested in a loco and its respective cars will not purchase one if the other is not available. This is short-sighted and detrimental for the reasons explained above. Their unwillingness to purchase the locomotive because the cars aren't available actually hurt the chances of the cars being produced contrary to the logic that might actually be driving these decisions to not purchase. Manufacturers (especially the bigger ones) only speak in terms of sales numbers, not lack thereof. If they see good sales numbers, they're likely going to pump that market for all its worth before it dries up. People who choose NOT to be a part of that market, are partly responsible for that market drying up much more quickly.

A prime example right now is what Walthers is doing (and I applaud them if my speculations are correct). Walthers took the Amtrak California and Surfliner schemes and put them on existing tooling which is true to prototype (ironically I think only 4 exist and they're all in the state of California). I suspect that they did this to see just how popular these cars are and if the sales numbers were to their liking, they would likely consider producing the actual California and Surfliner cars themselves (i.e. new tooling).

According to a Walthers rep, they have sold very well. Since they sold well, the chances of Walthers doing these cars is even greater than before. I did my part and purchased one of each for myself. Others went as far as to buy enough to make up a whole train. I consciously purchased these cars as a message to Walthers that these cars are in fact more popular than they think and worth seriously considering.

Model railroading (especially these days) is about planning. At a time where the standards have risen to being even more prototypically accurate, perhaps our practices should be more prototypical too. After all, railroads have always PLANNED. Why shouldn't we?

Short-sightedness is detrimental


~Kyle

The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains
Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........

www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update:1/30/12)

Edited by - MLRR on 2011 June 23 07:18:15 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 934 Go to Top of Page

drolsen

Posted - 2011 June 23 :  07:22:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit drolsen's Homepage
Kyle - I would guess that the reason we've seen a lack of passenger cars to go with these (and other passenger diesels) is that so many commuter cars are built for a specific order, and very few commuter roads have the same type of cars. Athearn did well with the Bombardier cars, which seem to be the only single style of car that is widely used, but when I look at MARC, SEPTA, NJ Transit, VRE, etc., I see all different styles of cars that a manufacturer would be taking a huge risk to produce. I'm aware of the resin kits for some of these cars, and they frankly just don't have the fine, quality molding and details that I'm willing to pay $60 for. I'm modeling CSX in central MD in 1998, so I would love to have about 3 dozen of the MARC single level cars (Kawasaki? I can't remember who built those), but only if they were at least the level of quality of Walthers passenger cars. I just can't pay $2000 for resin kits that I'd have to assemble that would still have chunky details.

Can you list off some commuter cars that are used by multiple railroads (i.e. at least 5) that would be good candidates for a mass production plastic model? I'm hoping there's at least one or two, but I'm not very familiar with commuter railroads other than MARC.

Dave


Railfanning and Modeling the CSX Old Main Line in the 1990s
http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/

Country: USA | Posts: 911 Go to Top of Page

MLRR

Posted - 2011 June 23 :  09:05:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit MLRR's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by drolsen

Kyle - I would guess that the reason we've seen a lack of passenger cars to go with these (and other passenger diesels) is that so many commuter cars are built for a specific order, and very few commuter roads have the same type of cars. Athearn did well with the Bombardier cars, which seem to be the only single style of car that is widely used, but when I look at MARC, SEPTA, NJ Transit, VRE, etc., I see all different styles of cars that a manufacturer would be taking a huge risk to produce. I'm aware of the resin kits for some of these cars, and they frankly just don't have the fine, quality molding and details that I'm willing to pay $60 for. I'm modeling CSX in central MD in 1998, so I would love to have about 3 dozen of the MARC single level cars (Kawasaki? I can't remember who built those), but only if they were at least the level of quality of Walthers passenger cars. I just can't pay $2000 for resin kits that I'd have to assemble that would still have chunky details.

Can you list off some commuter cars that are used by multiple railroads (i.e. at least 5) that would be good candidates for a mass production plastic model? I'm hoping there's at least one or two, but I'm not very familiar with commuter railroads other than MARC.

Dave



I'm well aware of the uniqueness of each commuter agency. I don't expect much in the way of SEPTA, NJT, Metro-North or even MARC. This is why I put my money into the IMW kits.

The cost of a kit that requires assembly is still a bit hard for me to swallow at times (I admit that) but the likelihood of seeing these cars produced by a Walthers or even Rapido may be slim to none so by the time this ever does happen, I would have gotten my money's worth out of the IMW kits by then. I personally own the bi-level MARC cars and I'm happy with them. I've even decided to re-furbish them and metalize them but not before receiving the single-level cars and building those up first.


Although I have two MARC AEM7s and an HHP almost finished and my cars are far from lonely, My MARC MP36 will have company when it finally arrives!

In the context of the MP36 however comments I think of the Gallery Cars by Nypon Shayro in particular.

I can name 3 commuter agencies right from the jump:

VRE (window arrangement slightly different)
CALTRAN
METRA

All three use the Nypon Shayro Bi-level Gallery cars and all three use MP36s. Walthers even did the Ex C&NW cars for these roads along with matching F40s (all prototypical in concept).

That's not 5 (one might as well ask someone to name 100) but they do represent East Coast, Mid-west and West Coast commuter agencies.

Also consider the F59. The model's been available in plastic for almost a decade and we've only recently had some sort of Amtrak California rollingstock in plastic (mentioned in my last post). Despite their unique design, they still have widespread appeal. This is coming from someone who lives on the East Coast and only saw the prototype once in person.

Also note that KATO is doing METRA in N scale with both an MP36 and matching Gallery Cars (Modern!). That's just one region? I'm still scratching my head (frustratingly, cinically) at that. Explain that one...


~Kyle

The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains
Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........

www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update:1/30/12)

Country: USA | Posts: 934 Go to Top of Page

drolsen

Posted - 2011 June 23 :  2:16:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit drolsen's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by MLRR

Although I have two MARC AEM7s and an HHP almost finished and my cars are far from lonely, My MARC MP36 will have company when it finally arrives!

I'm still holding on to the dream of kitbashing a MARC GP40WH-2, ever since Model Railroader answered my question about how to do such a project in their column way back around 1998. I have the major components cut up, but I postponed it while trying to figure out how to do all the louvers in the hood doors. Now that Archer has produced several sizes of louver decals, I need to take another look at it...

quote:
In the context of the MP36 however comments I think of the Gallery Cars by Nypon Shayro in particular.

I can name 3 commuter agencies right from the jump:

VRE (window arrangement slightly different)
CALTRAN
METRA

All three use the Nypon Shayro Bi-level Gallery cars and all three use MP36s.

That's a good start - those gallery cars are really sharp looking - I see them every day while commuting to work on the Metro in DC. It's still going to be tough to convince a major manufacturer to produce an HO model of a car owned by so few railroads. Compare it to the Bombardier cars, which Athearn has produced in more than a dozen roadnames.

quote:
That's not 5 (one might as well ask someone to name 100) but they do represent East Coast, Mid-west and West Coast commuter agencies.

Unfortunately, that's reality - even 5 road names is too few for most manufacturers to touch. We may have to wait to see if more commuter roads buy those cars in the future.

There seem to be a few more options for commuters - these MARC and VRE coaches (bought secondhand from the same source, and/or from each other, I assume), look to be a close match to the Pullman-Standard cars produced by Walthers (and Kato?):

MARC 7910:
http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1564122

VRE 434:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=945294

VRE also has these cars that look like they have the same body, but with more windows (maybe rebuilt?):

VRE V427:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=945289

I'm trying to lobby Walthers to offer their PRR Broadway Limited 21-roomette sleeper in its rebuilt coach configuration - these ran on Pennsy for a while and then went to MARC:

MARC 166:
http://www.trainweb.org/marcrailfan/marc166.jpg

It shouldn't require too much work, but will need the skirts removed and a new interior. I'll build a few myself if they don't offer them, and those will work well for me in 1998.

quote:
Also consider the F59. The model's been available in plastic for almost a decade and we've only recently had some sort of Amtrak California rollingstock in plastic (mentioned in my last post). Despite their unique design, they still have widespread appeal. This is coming from someone who lives on the East Coast and only saw the prototype once in person.

I'm kind of surprised that Walthers hasn't done the California or Surfliner cars yet, but I think it's only a matter of time. I have a feeling other manufacturers wouldn't touch them because Walthers had effectively cornered the HO Amtrak market by the late '90s, and Walthers may have just been waiting til everyone had their fill of Superliners (which might not seem like a different car to a lot of modelers).

quote:
Also note that KATO is doing METRA in N scale with both an MP36 and matching Gallery Cars (Modern!). That's just one region? I'm still scratching my head (frustratingly, cinically) at that. Explain that one...

Kato has always been in this market of offering specific train sets in N scale - something Walthers has only caught on to in the past 8 years. Kato's whole Japanese train line is like that - there really aren't any common cars that are used on many different trains in Japan, except the commuter trains in Tokyo, so every "long haul" train uses unique equipment. So doing a one-railroad train set representing a U.S. prototype isn't really any different from how they produce Japanese trains.

Dave


Railfanning and Modeling the CSX Old Main Line in the 1990s
http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/

Country: USA | Posts: 911 Go to Top of Page

SlowFreight

Posted - 2011 June 23 :  4:18:58 PM  Show Profile
drolsen, those cars are both ex-Metra/RTA, exx-C&NW cars. Since Walthers already did the Metra paint scheme, it would have been a slam dunk to do the MARC and VRE cars, but instead they painted the WRONG model in the full blue/gray VRE scheme. That should have been the Kato early Pullman 16-window car, but at least Walthers did something in VRE colors.

To give a more refined answer to the breadth of appeal of these cars, the Nippon Sharyo/Morrison-Knudsen/Super Steel bilevels operate over 14 different railroad lines in three areas of the country, with current railroads including UP, BNSF, CN, NS, and CP (I'm ignoring fallen flags here--if we talk about the older Budd cars, the list is almost twice as long).

The ex-C&NW cars have operated in Chicago (5 different lines now?), DC (at least 3 different lines), and Nashville, plus on lease in San Francisco and Montreal. Several short lines have also acquired them (think Hawkeye Express and WSOR, for two).

I don't think the number of paint schemes or owners makes a horse's rear of difference, though, because only one railroad ever owned and operated the Big Boy, the Veranda, and the DD40, but LOTS of people buy them. I maintain that a good NJT-only model would sell very well even if it couldn't be painted for anything else. Try to find an Atlas NJT U33/34 for sale.

But for other reasons, I'll shut up now



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ri_e8_652

Posted - 2011 June 23 :  4:20:44 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by drolsen

Can you list off some commuter cars that are used by multiple railroads (i.e. at least 5) that would be good candidates for a mass production plastic model? I'm hoping there's at least one or two, but I'm not very familiar with commuter railroads other than MARC.

Dave



Budd bilevel cars.
Production window 1961-1982(?).

Roads directly operating these cars (read: they were lettered in these road names) include:
Milwaukee Road, Rock Island, RTA, & Metra.

Roads indirectly operating them (under RTA & Metra umbrella) include:
BNSF, BN, C&NW, NS, N&W, CSS&SB, CP, CN, and Amtrak

We're trying to sell locomotives here, so what locomotives powered these long-lived cars?

They include:
E-7 (teamed with a HEP unit on the RI), E-8, E-9, F-7, FP-7, F-9, F40C, F40PH, F40PHM-2, F40PH-3, and the one we'd like to see made, the MP36PH-3S.

These cars are still in service by the hundreds today.


Tom Klimczak
Lemont, IL
...CC115 at JOLIET...got my signal from UD tower and now...heading east!

Edited by - ri_e8_652 on 2011 June 24 11:03:36 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 298 Go to Top of Page

SlowFreight

Posted - 2011 June 23 :  9:14:12 PM  Show Profile
1978-built Budds also operated in the LA basin in the early 80's behind leased Amtrak power.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=169012&nseq=0

And lest we forget, the Budd bilevels would make modest stand-ins for the orphan Canadian Vickers bilevels that ran under CP Rail and CTCUM/AMT

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=247931&nseq=1

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=73863&nseq=103



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