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BearNTrish
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 Posted - 08/03/2009 : 18:36:09
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The "Poor House Yard" .... who's rr does it belong to? That might even give me the actual location of it.
The "yard" was named due to the lil creek called the Poor House Run.
Ok folks... having a ruff time here only because I know it flows to each place.
This lil creek runs from the East side of the Codorus Creek, just a very lil bit South West of - York Axle & Forging Co- (back to 1929? Sanborn Maps) which was switched by the WM in their yard area of Loucks Mill Rd. (There is a Loucks Yard, is that WM's?) This same lil creek goes south under the WMRR yard lines, under Loucks Mill Rd (between about the 519-526 addresses) to passing under the West side of the PRR Wye going N up to the "York" or "Loucks Yard" maybe even now the "Windor St Yards" and the East part of the wye - the "York Secondary Branch" heading to Hellam/Columbia/Phila. This same lil creek then flows south thru York crossing King St about the same place as the Ma & Pa RR does... then coming along the East Side of Lamour St which runs N-S (flowing almost beside it), This part is North of Prospect St. where Lamour crosses it.
To the East of this area listed above with this same lil creek now is.... the Ma & Pa yards?
So.... hope that was easy to follow... (a Creek thru a town?)... but the maps I have do not list the yards. I have schematics of the "York" lines, but none show the yards clear enough (a bunch of stuff off of 2 lines, with 3 RR's). And I've seen different websites where the owners of (showing each rr) list their lines running to the Poor House Yards.
Where and who's is it?
BTW... going back home (York) for a visit in a few weeks if the VA Docs' tests say I can. You would think I knew this, wouldn't ya!
Thanks Guys
Bear
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BearNTrish
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Posted - 08/03/2009 : 18:46:48
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Tried to edit but it.....
All of this doesn't even count the Yard on the Northern Central Branch of the PRR. Which also is the same for the Fredrick Branch of the PRR. which isn't the same freight yard for both of these.
Did that help clear things up?
Bear
even I forgot.... The Ma & Pa runs up to these also.
New Edit
Bear
another edit... for the post above also... Should be York or Windsor Yard at the N tip of the PRR wye
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Edited by - BearNTrish on 08/04/2009 14:37:57 |
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CSXGP38
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randgust
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Posted - 08/03/2009 : 19:58:08
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This might help - the historical quad map of York in 1910...
http://historical.mytopo.com/quad.cfm?quadname=York&state=PA&series=15
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Santa Fe Albuquerque Third District in N
A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car; but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad. - Theodore Roosevelt
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wm3798
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Posted - 08/04/2009 : 15:01:04
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Here's a WM Track Chart from York to Porters.
http://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/trackpdfs/WMTCYORPOR.pdf
The WM yard was Lincoln, on the southwest side of the town, but the line continued northeasterly along the same right of way as the PRR Frederick Secondary, crossing Codorus Creek on this bridge...
then past this coal pier...
to the end of the WM line at this Freight station...
There the line connected with the Northern Central, then in an easterly direction to the Ma & Pa line on the east side of town.
The part that might be confusing you is the section between Lincoln Yard and Codorus Creek, where the WM and PRR shared a narrow cavern between large industrial buildings (great modeling fodder, by the way...)
There was no direct connection between the WM and M&P, only by way of that segment of NC (PRR) track between the freight house and the M&P yard.
York is a highly model-worthy town. At one time, Baltimore to Harrisburg passenger trains did some street running through York... There are still buildings with corners nicked out of them to accommodate the long passenger cars... Later this was a piggyback route for the PRR/PC.
Lee
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Fireballs and Black Diamonds
www.wmrywesternlines.net |
Edited by - wm3798 on 08/04/2009 15:01:51 |
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BearNTrish
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Posted - 08/04/2009 : 15:49:22
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Great pics Lee.... and i know where you are.
BUT.... Lincoln was Madusa Cement and quarries. Wasn't/Isn't it. all kinds of tracks thru there switching. Both WM and PRR Fredrick Branch.
Now to York... I'm following you to ... the freight house which is at George St.... but the tracks go farther on, along the Creek , up thru a small yard and past a turntable and then turning N going into Loucks Yard which was fairly large. This all on the West side of Loucks Mill Rd. Again I'm looking at 1929 Sanborn Maps. In the middle of this first yard area after the WM freight house and before the turntable a WM line does turn S into the N end of Harding Mfg Co. Iron Works. which the PRR also switched from the S end. This is in the area of where the Ma & Pa come up from the S/SE.
The WM area I'm talking about in the first post with the Poor House Run coming off the C Creek is the large WM yard I'm talking about in this post. The PRR had both freight and passenger yards AT there station in York on North St. These yards sorta narrowed down (where the Ma & Pa join in and they switch the Iron works) and then crossed Loucks Mill Rd with a half dozen tracks or so. THEN they whyed - part heading N into "Windsor Yard?" (might have been York Yard) which then also continued N as the NC Branch. Back to the wye... going straight thru it heads to Hellam/Columbia/Phila.
Bear
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wm3798
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Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:25:52
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To the best of my knowledge, which would be the WM track chart noted, the WM ended either at or shortly beyond the freight house. Anything beyond that point would have been the Northern Central.
I'll check with the WM Yahoo group and see if anyone has a better answer... But Lincoln Yard was definitely a WM facility. You can see the PRR interchange track on the chart, but the yard is clearly WM.
Lee
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Fireballs and Black Diamonds
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Ed Kapuscinski
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Posted - 08/04/2009 : 21:25:02
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York PA? Well, I was just thinking about building a model of it (if the NCR was still active in 1985...) today, and, well, every day for the past couple of years.
Give me a few minutes to make up a map, and I'll be glad to help.
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Ed Kapuscinski
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sizemore
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Posted - 08/04/2009 : 23:19:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ed Kapuscinski
York PA? Well, I was just thinking about building a model of it (if the NCR was still active in 1985...) today, and, well, every day for the past couple of years.
Give me a few minutes to make up a map, and I'll be glad to help.
That would be the BYR ;)
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1968 WESTERN MARYLAND RAILWAY 1973
WM Motive Power | B & O/C & O Poolpower | Steam Excursion Fleet |
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BearNTrish
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Posted - 08/04/2009 : 23:24:41
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Ed... good map if you know where the lines were. Might be a bit hard to follow the WMRR up around the creek if you don't know it went there. Some part of the lines still show thru. One thing you can do is follow the East edge of the creek North to just before the Black Bridge crosses the creek which is where the WM line joined the NC PRR line. Hard to see if you're not sure it's there.
Lee... not arguing that northern side being WMRR.... My 1929 Sanborn Maps show.... at the closest point where the WM and the PRR get beside each other... (WM on the North, PRR on the South) working West.
Double Main on the WM crossing S. Sumner St.; West of that- a siding going off the North side (parallel) for the S side of a Contractors Yard. moving west on the WM... On the South side of the double main... a switching track going into Pa Furniture Co. (PRR also switching this... the WM track and PRR join) again going west on the WM.... another switch coming off S... to Penn Veneer Co. with a siding track inside (also switched by the PRR whose track joins).... further west on the WM we come to Medusa Cement... first switch southward... is it's own switching lead for the plant... I see 9 lines coming into the plant...the last one (east) splits into 2... on the east side of the Kiln Bldg and Boiler Rm.... these lines both join the PRR and go into one track {{ all these joining tracks with the PRR line are shown heading South}}. Back further west on the WM... a switch for the N side of main... heading to the North side of that Contractors Yard as Before.
Now for the PRR side of this split at Sumner St... Hard to tell... maybe single line heading East from here... but is double main West of here; first 2 going to the first 2 areas mentioned on the WM (Pa Furniture & Pa Veneer). Moving SW on the PRR next switching lead N into Pfaltzgraff Pottery (no connection with the WM here). next going southward on the PRR ... single line north switch into Medusa splits (to meet with the WM at the Kiln & Boiler Rm.) moving S.. Switch north for Keystone Paper Box Co.. By the switch to Medusa there is a southward switc going to a quarry(?).
I know hard to tell without a map or drawing. but I don't know how to do that chit on here.
PM me and I'll try to send ya a copy by fax or e mail.
Bear
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Edited by - BearNTrish on 08/04/2009 23:26:49 |
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BearNTrish
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Posted - 08/05/2009 : 10:42:57
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Lee... I went back to the track chart and maps together....
You're Right.
The WM Lincoln Yards have to be further West then Medusa. The track chart doesn't list Medusa but the lines are there. Including the ones East that switch and join with the PRR.
and just to be sure on another part... the WM and PRR go thru York on a parallel right of way up to just East of Newberry St. The WM turns slightly NE and crosses the Codorus Creek on the bridge you have the pics of.
The PRR continues to go East towards the Creek and then at the edge it turns NE also coming across about parallel again.... just farther apart. where they cross Beaver St. the split might be 1/2 block between them.
Here around Beaver St is where the Fredrick Branch joins up with the Northern Central Branch to go the next 2 blocks into York Station.
But this still doesn't tell me where the Poor House Yard is.
Thanks for all the help so far guys.
Bear
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keystonecrossings
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Posted - 08/05/2009 : 10:55:29
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quote:
Originally posted by BearNTrish
Lee... I went back to the track chart and maps together....
You're Right.
The WM Lincoln Yards have to be further West then Medusa. The track chart doesn't list Medusa but the lines are there. Including the ones East that switch and join with the PRR.
and just to be sure on another part... the WM and PRR go thru York on a parallel right of way up to just East of Newberry St. The WM turns slightly NE and crosses the Codorus Creek on the bridge you have the pics of.
The PRR continues to go East towards the Creek and then at the edge it turns NE also coming across about parallel again.... just farther apart. where they cross Beaver St. the split might be 1/2 block between them.
Here around Beaver St is where the Fredrick Branch joins up with the Northern Central Branch to go the next 2 blocks into York Station.
But this still doesn't tell me where the Poor House Yard is.
The PRR line you are describing is the Frederick Branch, which terminated at York, just east of the Codorus Creek, where it met the Northern Central Branch.
The Northern Central Branch, two tracked until 1954, ran from Baltimore, through York, to Wago Junction, where it met the York Haven Line.
Just east of the York station the Northern Central turned north. Another branch continued due east to Columbia... the Columbia Branch. At the entry to this branch was the Poor House Yard.
The connection between the Columbia Branch and the NCRy was a wye. Inside the wye was the loco facility.
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Jerry
Pennsy: http://kc.pennsyrr.com , http://forums.pennsyrr.com
Alphabet Route: www.alphabetroute.com , http://forums.alphabetroute.com |
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David Leonard
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Posted - 08/05/2009 : 10:58:30
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This site might be useful: http://www.mdrails.com/mpaarchive.html There's a couple photos labeled "Poor House Yard" and they show some buildings. Probably the tower is gone by now, but track diagrams might show its location. If the other buildings are still there, you might find them on Bing map/photos and figure this out.
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keystonecrossings
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Posted - 08/05/2009 : 11:00:06
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Here's a later view of PRR's YORK interlocking...
The Columbia Branch is at upper left, now called the York Secondary (to Wrightsville).
To the right, down the Frederick Branch, the PRR line would come alongside and connect with the WM.
The WM and PRR ran parallel for one mile down a gauntlet of industries and shared trackage rights. The list of industries is amazing.
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Jerry
Pennsy: http://kc.pennsyrr.com , http://forums.pennsyrr.com
Alphabet Route: www.alphabetroute.com , http://forums.alphabetroute.com |
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keystonecrossings
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