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 Coupling distance between cars?
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Author Previous Topic: Figure this one out, if this isnt a conundrum I d Topic Next Topic: Whats with the Erie builts on ebay?  

henkuk

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  03:35:36 AM  Show Profile
Hi all,
I have spent the last two weeks going over each of my 60 odd cars checking trucks, couplers, pins etc. Now all my cars have the trucks that are as per prototype as I used to swap them around when I started out in the hobby, not being aware of the differences etc.

One thing I also concentrated on was removing as many MTL coupler, keep the trucks and fit accumates in the boxes as it reduces the slinky effect if you have half your stock running with accumates. I found that the alleged lack of strength is due to the crappy box on the accumates so that should be fine.

Questions is as following:
I have spent quite a bit of time over the last weeks looking up prototype photos and noticed that some cars are actually separated by quite a distance especially boxcars with particular type of couplers that appears to have a proto slinky effect build in.

I have concentrated to reduce distance as much as possible and now some boxes sit nice and close together.

What are the ideas of the experts? Is for example the bigger distance between two accumate couplers proto or is it more like MTL's?

Country: United Kingdom | Posts: 171

DJCONWAY

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  08:29:22 AM  Show Profile
All depends on the type of car and years, some shock control underframes will allow the couplers to move over 6" at each end.
What did you do with the scrap MTs?

edit-- Will trade Accumates for MT 1-1


Do your part buy stuff!

Edited by - DJCONWAY on 2010 May 21 3:47:32 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 2536 Go to Top of Page

Dale Jr

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  1:45:02 PM  Show Profile
I can't believe that you would actually get rid of the Micro Trains equipment. You must be new to the hobby. The first thing I do when I bring a new car home is to throw out the crappy Accumate, Rapido, or whatever trucks and couplers.

Years ago, I went through and inspected all 2000 or so freight cars of mine. I found off brand wheels in Micro Trains trucks and Micro Trains wheels in off brand trucks, off brand truck pins, ect. I replaced everything with Micro Trains-trucks, wheels, couplers, and truck pins. I checked coupler heights on body mounts and checked trip pin heights. My derailments went to zero due to car problems. This stuff works.


My world ended September 11, 1996.

Country: | Posts: 380 Go to Top of Page

rschaffter

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  2:08:34 PM  Show Profile
My ony gripe wuth Accumates is that they need a bit more force to couple than MTLs. The Atlas trucks are pretty good as far as their rolling qualities, although the wheel shape of the MTL is better. I put Intermountain wheelsets in the old metal-wheel Atlas truck frames, and bodymount an MTL coupler.

As far as putting Accumates in MTL boxes, it eliminates the slinky effect-I believe that Kisatchie was the discoverer of that trick.

Back to the Topic, I used to use the MTL trucks with medium shank couplers on cushion underframe cars. Now that I bodymount, I mount the coupler closer to the end of the car.


Cheers,
Rod Schaffter
--
C'mon in! Sit a spell...
http://z11.invisionfree.com/N_Scale_Talk/

On your Layout, do what you think is fun. If it doesn't work, fix it and learn from the experience so you will have fun next time. It's your Railroad.

Edited by - rschaffter on 2010 May 21 2:12:28 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 2441 Go to Top of Page

SkipFranandFun

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  2:55:23 PM  Show Profile
"In my view it is about perspective..."...henkuk
(Excellent post henkuk!...I saved it. )

I feel that way about coupling distances.


(fantastic photo and loads by Hay Brothers Garage...!)

...small potatoes.

Peace be with you,
Skip



Edited by - SkipFranandFun on 2010 May 22 07:52:04 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 2283 Go to Top of Page

rschaffter

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  4:01:51 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by SkipFranandFun



...small potatoes.





Wouldn't small potatoes be shipped in boxcars?

Peace be with you, too!


Cheers,
Rod Schaffter
--
C'mon in! Sit a spell...
http://z11.invisionfree.com/N_Scale_Talk/

On your Layout, do what you think is fun. If it doesn't work, fix it and learn from the experience so you will have fun next time. It's your Railroad.

Edited by - rschaffter on 2010 May 21 4:02:20 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 2441 Go to Top of Page

henkuk

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  5:25:48 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dale Jr

I can't believe that you would actually get rid of the Micro Trains equipment. You must be new to the hobby. The first thing I do when I bring a new car home is to throw out the crappy Accumate, Rapido, or whatever trucks and couplers.

Years ago, I went through and inspected all 2000 or so freight cars of mine. I found off brand wheels in Micro Trains trucks and Micro Trains wheels in off brand trucks, off brand truck pins, ect. I replaced everything with Micro Trains-trucks, wheels, couplers, and truck pins. I checked coupler heights on body mounts and checked trip pin heights. My derailments went to zero due to car problems. This stuff works.



Yep, I am fairly new to the hobby. I never buy anything rapido though. All my cars get MT trucks and accumates in their boxes. The MT trucks are very good, the accumates are only rubbish in Atlas trucks as the box explodes under strain. In an MT box however they are way better then the MT's I feel. I never used remote uncoupling or any of those features, simply use a BBQ skewer.

I can not abide by the bouncy castle effect of the MT's. It's laughable and really spoils all the other hard work put into the looks of a car... It gives it a real toy train look when you see 10 cars bouncing along behind an engine.

I feel derailing is due to weight and wheel gauge in my humble and very limited experience opinion. On my old very rubbishly build layout I never had any problems bar with the very lightest of cars.

All my cars have FVM wheelsets (a few Intermountain) and I only run low-pro on Peco code 55. Particularly Red Caboose hoppers liked derailing on switching when pushed but not after proper weighting and FVM wheelsets.



Edited by - henkuk on 2010 May 21 5:31:12 PM

Country: United Kingdom | Posts: 171 Go to Top of Page

henkuk

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  5:33:15 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by SkipFranandFun

"In my view it is about perspective..."...henkuk
(Excellent post henkuk!...I saved it. )

I feel that way about coupling distances.


(fantastic loads by Hay Brothers Garage...!)

...small potatoes.

Peace be with you,
Skip



Thanks! Great picture... Looking at your hoppers that is about the distance I got with my cars too.

And yes, love the loads, particularly the pipeload!

I see if I can make a photo of some distances I got and put it up for you all to laugh at.... :)



Country: United Kingdom | Posts: 171 Go to Top of Page

Dale Jr

Posted - 2010 May 21 :  6:59:43 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by henkuk
[brI can not abide by the bouncy castle effect of the MT's. It's laughable and really spoils all the other hard work put into the looks of a car... It gives it a real toy train look when you see 10 cars bouncing along behind an engine.

I feel derailing is due to weight and wheel gauge in my humble and very limited experience opinion. On my old very rubbishly build layout I never had any problems bar with the very lightest of cars.




Micro Trains has a retaining spring, part #001 12 002 N-2, Truck Restraining Springs, 12 to a bag, that will probably solve your problem. The problem occurs when there is not enough drag on the cars, and the tension of the coupler spring overcomes the drag of the cars. The problem goes away automatically on bigger trains.

Proper weight in freight and passenger cars is essential to good operation. But no amount of effort on freight cars will overcome bad track. Bad running freight cars are easy to fix, bad track isn't. Even the real railroads found this out.

The best way to bullet proof a layout is to run it. Fix the problems when you find them, eventually all your problems are eliminated and a layout becomes a joy to run.


My world ended September 11, 1996.

Country: | Posts: 380 Go to Top of Page

kengprice

Posted - 2010 May 22 :  5:56:20 PM  Show Profile
The following is my opinion based on my layout only.

I have both Accumates and MT couplers and trucks. In fact I just added MT trucks with couplers to all of the cars that still had the old Rapido trucks and couplers.
The Accumate couplers hold up as well as the MT and with out as much slinky affect. I find the MT do uncouple in the middle of runs more then the Accumates though they are closer to the real thing. This may have more to do with some of the track work then just the couplers.
I find that if a Accumate comes apart it way easy to put together again. No so with the Micro-trains.

Over all I am pleased with both.

So I don't swap Accumates for MT's though I replace the wheel on both with Atlas 33" metal wheels. What a difference in performance they make over the plastic wheels and axles.


Ken Price
Lake County Ca.
Super Empire Builder with radio throttles.
UP, MP, SP, C&NW
http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/ss115/kengprice/?start=all

Country: USA | Posts: 205 Go to Top of Page

s40er

Posted - 2010 May 22 :  7:15:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit s40er's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Dale Jr

I can't believe that you would actually get rid of the Micro Trains equipment. You must be new to the hobby. The first thing I do when I bring a new car home is to throw out the crappy Accumate, Rapido, or whatever trucks and couplers.

Years ago, I went through and inspected all 2000 or so freight cars of mine. I found off brand wheels in Micro Trains trucks and Micro Trains wheels in off brand trucks, off brand truck pins, ect. I replaced everything with Micro Trains-trucks, wheels, couplers, and truck pins. I checked coupler heights on body mounts and checked trip pin heights. My derailments went to zero due to car problems. This stuff works.



Dale, I'm a 20+ year veteran in n-scale with over 2400 freight cars, and I am so sick of MT slinky affect that I plan to do the same to all of my cars, just waiting for a lot of bulk McHenry couplers to become available ( as well as bulk funding ). I'm also converting all of my wheel sets to Fox Valley Models wheel sets as well and going to be hand laying all of my switches from now on. Then again, I've always like to see how far I can push the "crazy" boundary.




Yes it's true, I'm back, but I still have no idea where I went
www.n-scaler.com

Country: USA | Posts: 385 Go to Top of Page

henkuk

Posted - 2010 May 22 :  8:17:19 PM  Show Profile
I also found that the slinky effect has nothing to do with enough drag.
I have been to shows where I see 60+ cars trains running and the cars are still bouncing along.
The contractions over that length of consists are well over an inch.

And the better the cars roll, the better your track, the more the effect as there is less resistance in them bouncing up and down.
However, put every third car with accumates and the problem is a lot less severe.


Slowly gathering data for my West Valley Subdivision 1977 SP Layout...

Country: United Kingdom | Posts: 171 Go to Top of Page
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