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dlezette

Posted - 2009 October 27 :  10:28:54 PM  Show Profile
The D&H paper trains were definitely hauling 40 foot boxcars in the mid to late 70s. I attached two photos I shot of trains headed south from Canada at Fort Ann, NY in July 1981.

I remember a lot of CN 40 footers in the wet noodle scheme, and CP 40 footers in the original block and later script schemes. Fifty foot CP green "newsprint" cars and CV and CN plug door 50's were also common.

As someone mentioned, CN and CP forty footers outlasted their US counterparts by quite a few years. The US forties died off fast when the incentive per diem 50 foot "shortline" boxcars flooded the rails in 1979-80.

Doug Lezette

Download Attachment: july81one.JPG
83.13 KB

Download Attachment: july81two.JPG
64.84 KB



Country: USA | Posts: 8 Go to Top of Page

CNW

Posted - 2009 October 27 :  10:39:39 PM  Show Profile
The problem with newsprint or paper products is that typically they are subject to moisture problems. Plug door box cars will keep a load like that dry whereas a sliding door car won't. Perhaps there are some paper types that could be shipped in a sliding door car but most paper would be in a plug door boxcar. The exception is some of the cheaper large rolled paper. It's usually shipped sealed and bailed and can be shipped in standard boxcars. Most boxcars that ship this have 14' doors but I have seen standard boxcars used too when I used to work at the plant. We were a large printer but we got most of our stock from trucks even though we had great rail service right to our door. Our biggest problem with the rail providers was time. It took them 2-3 days more to get us something by truck and we were getting our stuff from only 3-400 miles from our facility.

Hey Nate, those newsprint cars with Canadian markings went all over the US so they would work in the midwest as well.


Rockford and Indiana Railroad - THE Chicago connection!

Edited by - CNW on 2009 October 27 10:40:38 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 4785 Go to Top of Page

leikec

Posted - 2009 October 27 :  10:47:17 PM  Show Profile
Thanks for the replies! I do know that 40' Canadian cars were common on D&H trains in 1975 and 1976.

I'm also not sure about the roofwalk situation; I need to check photos in my collection and in the D&H in colour books, but I'm fairly sure that some (at least a few) of the boxcars still had roofwalks in the early to mid 70's photos.

I also need to do research on covered hoppers. I'm modeling the D&H-Green Mountain-Vermont Rwy junction at Rutland, and one of the major products interchanged was talc. I'd appreciate any information anyone might have on the types of covered hoppers used in this service.

Jeff C



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CNW

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  01:23:30 AM  Show Profile
Well roofwalks were outlawed by then so you wouldn't see them on the cars by the 70's. Often times railroads just removed the roofwalks and left the high brake wheels or ratchets. Most got lower brakes when rebuilt and also had their tall ladders removed as well. The IPD boxcar craze though pretty much killed all those old boxcars by then and most were not rebuilt.

Rockford and Indiana Railroad - THE Chicago connection!

Country: USA | Posts: 4785 Go to Top of Page

graftonterminalrr

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  07:54:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit graftonterminalrr's Homepage
acsoosub - yes, I know the Canadian 40-footers lasted a long time. Thanks for the correction, though - I know there were newsprint-only 40-footers but didn't think they lasted into the 80's, or were interchanged much if at all. 50 footers - naturally.

Owner/Operator of the Grafton Terminal Railway, set in the 1978-1984 period

Country: Canada | Posts: 871 Go to Top of Page

route rock

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  08:05:17 AM  Show Profile
Roof walks might have been outlawed in the 1970ís per the F.R.A. but some railroads were still using cars with them during the 1980.

Bradford Greene "At the Rock Island, we are helping to feed the world, one car at a time"
(modeling the Rock Island in central Iowa & southern MN. in 1977).
http://rits.org

Country: USA | Posts: 1018 Go to Top of Page

cp6027

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  08:31:14 AM  Show Profile

Sylvan also offered resin kits for the later CP 50' exterior post NSC newsprint cars with either 9' or 10' doors. They add a little variety to a fleet of the P1K cars. They are a mid-70s design if I recall correctly, and I think CN had similar cars as well. I'm not sure if the kits are still in production but they can be found out there.



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amocoman

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  09:07:24 AM  Show Profile
The Hammond Times Newspaper was located in downtown Hammond Indiana along the Monon RR. Before that lined was mothballed, I remember seeing a lot of 50ft outside braced plugdoor boxcars in the CP Multimark in green but with QC( Quebec Central ) sub-lettering. I also remember the Missouri Pacific GP15,s bringing cars to The Hammond Times.


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ACL1099

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  10:37:50 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by acsoosub

quote:
Originally posted by ACL1099



Careful now :) . Lifelike used that car in some stuff like Snow White & The Seven Vertically Challenged Geezers train and other awful crap like that They strip easily enough to be repainted but your stripping alcohol turns some really ugly shades of purple.



ACL, you're thinking of the old Like-Like 50' boxcar, with the flat roof based on an Evans prototype owned by PC/Conrail.

The Proto1000 car we're talking about is the Canadian newsprint car based on a plug-door National Steel Car prototype.



You're of course correct. Mea culpa.



Country: Western Samoa | Posts: 1626 Go to Top of Page

acsoosub

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  12:44:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit acsoosub's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by CNW

Well roofwalks were outlawed by then so you wouldn't see them on the cars by the 70's. Often times railroads just removed the roofwalks and left the high brake wheels or ratchets. Most got lower brakes when rebuilt and also had their tall ladders removed as well. The IPD boxcar craze though pretty much killed all those old boxcars by then and most were not rebuilt.



The IPD craze was a US phenomenon. The Canadian roads didn't get in on that until the 1980s after the recession hit and the original owners were unloading their cars and could be scooped up on the cheap. So IPD didn't have the same 40' boxcar killing effect up here as it did in the states.

There were some new boxcars built during the 1970s for Canadian roads, and they all pretty much were for newsprint service. But the volume of new cars was no different from the previous decade. In fact a lot of new cars were built during the late 1960s and early 1970s, the prototype for the Proto1000 NSC newsprint box was built in 1969. Otherwise, Canadian roads were actually a little late on the whole 50' boxcar thing. There were some 50 footers built during the 1950s, when that size was basically already becoming standard in the US, but they were almost without exception double door cars for automobile or lumber loading. Canadian car builders were cranking out 40' boxcars well into the mid 1950s, when the 50' boxcar was already common south of the border. All of this, plus the massive size of the national fleets of 40' boxcars helped contribute to the longevity of the car type up here. Also, pool/LCL/express sheds remained in operation into the late 1970s/early 1980s trying to compete with transcontinental truck traffic, and this pretty much exclusively used 40' boxcars. Once the express business was finally shut down, the older 40' cars started to gradually die off, as there was then a surplus of boxcars. But a lot stayed active in newsprint service for a while, and extremely light rail on numerous prairie grain branches in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta kept fleets of 40' cars in service well into the late 1990s.


Chris van der Heide
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca
http://trainweb.org/algoma
http://vanderheide.ca

Country: Canada | Posts: 685 Go to Top of Page

acsoosub

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  12:47:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit acsoosub's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by route rock

Roof walks might have been outlawed in the 1970ís per the F.R.A. but some railroads were still using cars with them during the 1980.



Starting in 1969 new cars couldn't have them (except tanks or hoppers that required them for loading) and IIRC existing cars were supposed to have them removed by 1983. So during the 1970s you could have a real mix of cars still with roofwalks, and those with the running boards (the technically correct term) removed.

And anything goes with cars in non-interchange service.


Chris van der Heide
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca
http://trainweb.org/algoma
http://vanderheide.ca

Country: Canada | Posts: 685 Go to Top of Page

navarch2

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  1:47:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit navarch2's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by rockislandnut

Forget buying them from Walthers ( if you choose to do so ) for they are all sold out of all the P1K newspaper cars.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-37151

Might make a google?



My LHS has a lot of them from the original LifeLike plus the later Watlthers run still in stock in a variety of names.


Bob

Visit the Providence Northern at:

www.providencenorthern.com

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leikec

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  3:21:40 PM  Show Profile
The D&H paper trains ran over the entire mainline, from PA up into Quebec.

"Starting in 1969 new cars couldn't have them (except tanks or hoppers that required them for loading) and IIRC existing cars were supposed to have them removed by 1983. So during the 1970s you could have a real mix of cars still with roofwalks, and those with the running boards (the technically correct term) removed."

That's what I was remembering. I'll check my D&H slides from my 1976 railfanning trip to confirm.

Jeff C



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acsoosub

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  4:53:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit acsoosub's Homepage
BTW, for the record I went through and added up some numbers from my Oct. 1986 ORER, and at that point Canadian National still listed 14,204 40' boxcars of various descriptions plus 758 40' insulated cars.
Canadian Pacific listed 14,024 40' boxcars and 923 40' insulated cars.
(Not counting several hundred cars that had been de-roofed and turned into 40' woodchip gondolas)

Also, Ontario Northland still publicly listed 76 40' boxcars (vs. 127 50' cars assigned to paper svc + 187 50' cars assigned to metal refinery products) in 1986. (In 1975, ONT listed 443 40' boxcars plus another 113 assigned to wood chip service (some of them de-roofed and extended sides) and only 49 50' cars, all assigned to paper svc.)


Chris van der Heide
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca
http://trainweb.org/algoma
http://vanderheide.ca

Edited by - acsoosub on 2009 October 28 10:51:51 PM

Country: Canada | Posts: 685 Go to Top of Page

NTRR

Posted - 2009 October 28 :  7:18:41 PM  Show Profile
On running boards:

"Starting in 1969 new cars couldn't have them (except tanks or hoppers that required them for loading) and IIRC existing cars were supposed to have them removed by 1983."

Mid-1966 is the general date for not providing running boards, and I say general because there were different dates for new cars deliveries vs shop rebuilt cars. A date was also set for removal of all house car running boards which was then pushed back more than once as it was missed. It was rare but stragglers could be found into the late '80s with running boards.

Jim
PC Newark Terminal Division
Modelling PC & CNJ 1969-1974



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