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carrman
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 Posted - 12/17/2008 : 00:26:18
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Beleive what you will Bob. "Good enough" never will be for those who want an accurate model.
Dave
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Paul Cutler III
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Posted - 12/17/2008 : 01:55:41
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Bob,
The increase in detail can be tracked down to the P2K BL-2? Or perhaps the Spectrum 70tonner? I don't think any plastic models produced up to that time had seperate grabs. In either case, we're talking about 1989-90...which is after the public use of the internet. Sure, it was BBS's, CompuServe, and Newsgroups back then, but it was still the internet.
In any event, remember that the manufacturer's are making great models for a reason. Sure, CAD/CAM makes it easier and cheaper, but there's nothing saying they have to use it. There must be a demand for ever-better models because otherwise they wouldn't bother. So in that regard, yes, I think we modelers who want better more accurate models can take some credit for that. We have collectively put our money where our mouths are by supporting these improved efforts by the companies.
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Paul A. Cutler III
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Country: USA
| Posts: 1465 |
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Slatepicker
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Posted - 12/17/2008 : 23:43:06
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Any feedback on the problems I saw with my models?
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Delaware and Hudson 1960-1983
Erie Lackawanna 1960-1976
And others 1960-1983 |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 1444 |
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Slatepicker
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Posted - 12/18/2008 : 13:11:37
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I now have one engine that has developed a persistant short circuit and another that has an intermittant short circuit.
So far, I am not impressed.
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Delaware and Hudson 1960-1983
Erie Lackawanna 1960-1976
And others 1960-1983 |
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Country: USA
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ATSFAN
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Posted - 12/18/2008 : 19:19:55
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Rome wasn't built in a day is not the right analogy? Is Bowser charging a low rate for the engine while the keep at it to make it Atlas quality?
quote:
Originally posted by DnHMike
Hey come on guys, ALL you ever want to do is bash BOWSER. Nobody ever says what a GREAT job they are doing trying to turn this line around. Heck Rome wasn't built in a day!! Just look at the difference of this run of NEW century's compared to the releases of the old Stewart line!!
1 Paint colors are CORRECT not a guess of what they should be.
2 Rain shields, If you do you home work you will see that the ONLY D&H units that had these were phase 1's and the numbers chosen were phase 2 numbered units!
3 The NEW run has lift rings and Brass details which is a feature ATLAS does not have.
4 They also have the grill weathered.
5 They also have other details that Atlas does not. Proper horns and other road name specific details.............
I would also like to mention that I've spoke to Bowser and All of there engines in the future will use True line trains metal couplers a copy of the Kadee #5. Another feature that atlas does not have......
And they are trying to fix the packaging issue for the Sound Version.
Don't get me wrong Atlas does make a good product but BOWSER is & HAS come a LONG way from the old Stewart days.....
Also I have NO affiliation to them just my $.02 worth...
Mike
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navarch2
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Posted - 12/19/2008 : 12:07:39
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quote:
Originally posted by carrman
Beleive what you will Bob. "Good enough" never will be for those who want an accurate model.
Dave
Yes, I agree Dave. Those who seek accuracy cannot be satisfied with "good enough"...I was refering to those of us who are not strict prototype modelers, which is not a label intended as bad in any way....
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Bob
Visit the Providence Northern at:
www.providencenorthern.com |
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navarch2
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Posted - 12/19/2008 : 12:17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Cutler III
Bob,
The increase in detail can be tracked down to the P2K BL-2? Or perhaps the Spectrum 70tonner? I don't think any plastic models produced up to that time had seperate grabs. In either case, we're talking about 1989-90...which is after the public use of the internet. Sure, it was BBS's, CompuServe, and Newsgroups back then, but it was still the internet.
In any event, remember that the manufacturer's are making great models for a reason. Sure, CAD/CAM makes it easier and cheaper, but there's nothing saying they have to use it. There must be a demand for ever-better models because otherwise they wouldn't bother. So in that regard, yes, I think we modelers who want better more accurate models can take some credit for that. We have collectively put our money where our mouths are by supporting these improved efforts by the companies.
Paul, with all due respect, 1989/90 was not a time when anywhwere near extensive public use of the net, via Windows-based browsers, was the case. DOS-based bulletin boards were not heavily populeted in the hobby world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_web_browsers
LifeLike did not start the P2k line as the result of internet-based research. They took on the "raising of the bar" because they had access to new technologies in design and manufacturing that allowed them to try at least to make plastic locomotives with brass-like detail.
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Bob
Visit the Providence Northern at:
www.providencenorthern.com |
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Slatepicker
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Posted - 12/19/2008 : 12:44:47
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Regarding my Bowser C628s I spoke with Bowser about them and have sent them for repair replacement.
I think the models are very good looking and I have a role planned for then and have confidence they will correct the problems.
Regarding the history of model quality: All that good info on the history of the development of more detailed models would be better placed in a separate thread where it will show up in a targeted search and attract more attention from those interested in that topic but perhaps not so interested in the Bowser C628s.
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Delaware and Hudson 1960-1983
Erie Lackawanna 1960-1976
And others 1960-1983 |
Edited by - Slatepicker on 12/19/2008 12:46:00 |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 1444 |
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graftonterminalrr
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Posted - 12/19/2008 : 13:03:03
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The Proto 2000 BL-2 was a watershed mark in HO scale plastic diesel locomotives. Here, for the first time, was a mainline diesel locomotive with freestanding "brass-quality" complete detail coupled to a chassis with great running capabilities. Yes, Bachmann had built the Spectrum 70 tonner by that point and the GP30 was a new release, but it's widely acknowledged that the 70 tonner (at least, its first production run) did not carry a terrific drive mechanism, what with twinned single-truck drives that often run out of sync, and the GP30 was a rehash of the older shells with ugly metal grab irons shoved in, and detaiing nowhere near the Proto unit.
The BL-2 carried a cloned Athearn Geep mechanism, to the point that trucks, gears, wheelsets, driveline parts, motor parts like mounts, brushes and indeed the entire armature assembly are directly interchangeable with Athearn parts. Maybe mot as smooth as a Kato straight out of the box, but solid, reliable and bulletproof. A first-run BL-2 (with wheelset gears replaced, of course) is one of the best choices to get a young model railroader in my opinion. Bulletproof, and enough freestanding detail to emphasize that "trains are to stay on the track".
But I digress. I love my Atlas DW&P RS-11, but it's clear that the handrails are far too thick and the fuel tank is all wrong... they detract from an otherwise fine model. I'll replace the handrails with the lacier ones from the Proto 1000 RS10/11/18 and the fuel tank, thankfully, isn't correct for my prototype anyway so must be replaced with a correct cross-mount one.
The Bowser/Stewart Big Alcos look great alongside the earlier Atlas/Kato C424/425; I would give the shells equal billing as far as quality. Were I to obtain one, and I may well very soon, the handrails would be replaced with wire and the radiator section, including separate walkway, would be sourced from Atlas.
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| Owner/Operator of the Grafton Terminal Railway, set in the 1978-1984 period |
Edited by - graftonterminalrr on 12/19/2008 16:35:51 |
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Country: Canada
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Chris Webster
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Curt Mc
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Posted - 12/20/2008 : 11:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by amtrakb32
They also have HUGE handrails, can't they fix that?
Many modelers are going to be happy that they just didn't stick unpainted, unmatching, and warped handrails on them as some other (even more highly praised) manufacturers do...
- Curt Mc
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Edited by - Curt Mc on 12/20/2008 11:37:09 |
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rdc_jay
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Posted - 12/20/2008 : 19:40:45
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I picked my Bowser 628s up at the post office customs yesterday. They look great. I have the LV "snow white" units with day-glo orange hand rails. The paint is missing in tiny spots on the rails, I'm guessing due to rubbing during shipping. Still, nothing bent and nothing broken. And were I to weather the units the missing paint would fit right in.
I'll see how they run, maybe tomorrow once I get the under the tree track laid.
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MoPac1
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Posted - 12/20/2008 : 21:30:38
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quote:
there is absolutely nothing wrong with "good enough".....and it is a bit disingenuous to say the current round of protests and input by the 1% folks is the sole cause of the increase in detail we are seeing. It started LONG before the Internet....and is 90% the result of the manufacturers doing what any good company does...improve the product. The MOST basic factor allowing this detail revolution was not input from modelers...it was the advent of CAD and related CAM and 3D modeling capability which allowed manufacturers to more easily produce many variants of a model using drawings and molds that were far more easily created/modified using CAD/CAM as opposed to hand drawing and manually tooling molds.
To be sure, modeler input helped...but don;t take credit for what the manufacturers did....absent modeler input you'd STILL have something close to these models you are seeing today.
I agree 100%...there is NO WAY that modelers had anything to do with the first run of the Proto 2K GP38-2's or the Atlas Trainman GP38-2's...The manufacturers goofed those all by THEMSELVES!!
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Tom Austin
Centralia IL
www.joppasub.com |
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Country: USA
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navarch2
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Posted - 12/21/2008 : 10:21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by MoPac1
quote:
there is absolutely nothing wrong with "good enough".....and it is a bit disingenuous to say the current round of protests and input by the 1% folks is the sole cause of the increase in detail we are seeing. It started LONG before the Internet....and is 90% the result of the manufacturers doing what any good company does...improve the product. The MOST basic factor allowing this detail revolution was not input from modelers...it was the advent of CAD and related CAM and 3D modeling capability which allowed manufacturers to more easily produce many variants of a model using drawings and molds that were far more easily created/modified using CAD/CAM as opposed to hand drawing and manually tooling molds.
To be sure, modeler input helped...but don;t take credit for what the manufacturers did....absent modeler input you'd STILL have something close to these models you are seeing today.
I agree 100%...there is NO WAY that modelers had anything to do with the first run of the Proto 2K GP38-2's or the Atlas Trainman GP38-2's...The manufacturers goofed those all by THEMSELVES!!
LOL....touche' :)
My PC 628 has now had 6 hours run time.....no issues. The D&H unit has been run in MU with Atlas D&H U30C, U33C, RS36, C424 and C420's witn no problems. I've also run it with a regeared P2K SD45 and a Kato RS2 and P2K RS2 with no issues. MU with Athearn RTR has been spotty as to success, mostly owing to the inconsistent drives on the various Athearn units I tried running it with. I am really looking forward to the Tsunami sound units.
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Bob
Visit the Providence Northern at:
www.providencenorthern.com |
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| Posts: 1749 |
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rdc_jay
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Posted - 12/21/2008 : 19:11:17
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My LV 628s are one for two. One came out of the box and ran problem free. The other has two small issues: the windshield is dislodged and the light opposite the direction of travel flickers occasionally. I'm suspecting some rough handling and making for a loose contact. Since I have to remove the shell to fix the windshield I can check the wiring.
Otherwise, both ran well...nearly on par with my Genesis SD70MAC. My Atlas Master line engines smoke both however in terms of less more growl and just plain old smoother running. I think I'm becoming an Atlas and Kato snob. 
On a more serious note, I wonder why all of my Atlas engines survive shipping from the U.S. unscathed but several of my Athearn and one of the Bowsers need minor work? *sigh*
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Country: Germany
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