Atlas Model Railroad Co. - Tiny Tot Gearmotor debut! - new pricing
Atlas Model Railroad Co.
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Atlas Model Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Rules   FAQ  
Active Topics | Members | Online Users | Forum Archive | Basic Forum (Mac / Netscape Users) | Search | Statistics
[ Active Members: 0 | Anonymous Members: 0 | Guests: 68 ]  [ Total: 68 ]  [ Newest Member: jjbern ]
 All Forums
 Atlas Model Railroad Forums
 N Scale Model Railroad Forum
 Tiny Tot Gearmotor debut! - new pricing
Previous Page | Next Page
 Forum Locked |   Topic Locked |   Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic: Changing siderod location on LL 2-8-8-2 Topic Next Topic: NP Intermountain FP7s
Page: of 11

up1950s

Posted - 2008 February 07 :  12:21:10 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by mmagliaro

I didn't know you could buy from Mashima directly. I found them at Micro-Loco-Motion,
so I bought mine there. There are a few other places on the web, like hollywoodfoundry.com,
that also advertise them.



I am not sure you can , as he states he is wholesale on hise site . At the time I eMailed him I was unaware that Motorman was the source of these motors .


Richie Dost Photos http://picasaweb.google.com/up1950s


Country: | Posts: 10219 Go to Top of Page

mmagliaro

Posted - 2008 February 07 :  10:48:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit mmagliaro's Homepage
Okay, I'm a believer. Two overnights, and two all-day runs, still fine.
Motor performance has become AMAZING. Minimum start/run speed is now
0.7 mph (yes, less than 1) and it's actually steady at that speed.
Something I didn't expect, but which makes sense now that I think about it,
is that the top speed went UP, which is good. As the motor broke in,
it runs smoother and puts out more power, so you get higher rpms.
12v speed is now 21 mph (up from 16).

Can still pull well. I threw 30 cars on it tonight and it started 'em right up
and pulled 'em no sweat. It is key to add weight to compensate for the smaller/lighter
motor.


-- Max

N Scale steam for the masses

Country: USA | Posts: 3890 Go to Top of Page

up1950s

Posted - 2008 February 07 :  10:59:31 PM  Show Profile
Thanks Max . Mr Moto eMailed me back and I Paypaled him for the 2 motors . Geez I've so many projects I am doing at once . I'll post my results on my pair when I get R done .

Richie Dost Photos http://picasaweb.google.com/up1950s


Country: | Posts: 10219 Go to Top of Page

Rob de rebel

Posted - 2008 February 08 :  10:57:23 AM  Show Profile
Nice going Max,
20mph is a little slow for me. I'd shoot for about 40 mph (transfer and helper runs running light and so forth) but glad you worked this out and shared the results.


Rob


Rob de rebel
Prototrack,
rdressel@gci.net

Country: USA | Posts: 5025 Go to Top of Page

mmagliaro

Posted - 2008 February 08 :  11:49:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit mmagliaro's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Rob de rebel

Nice going Max,
20mph is a little slow for me. I'd shoot for about 40 mph (transfer and helper runs running light and so forth) but glad you worked this out and shared the results.
Rob


Very welcome, Rob. Yeah, 21 is slow for me too, but given the choice between the way it ran out of the box and the way it runs now, I'd take the slow runner any day. It's quite an experience to run engines geared this slow. I don't blame people for being doubters. It might take some getting used to. My I1 only hits about 38-40 mph at full throttle. Having used these low-geared buggers for a while, I'd never go back.


-- Max

N Scale steam for the masses

Country: USA | Posts: 3890 Go to Top of Page

daniel_leavitt2000

Posted - 2008 February 19 :  07:49:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit daniel_leavitt2000's Homepage
What is Mashima's website?

Goodbye and good luck.

Country: USA | Posts: 2228 Go to Top of Page

up1950s

Posted - 2008 February 19 :  09:09:27 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by daniel_leavitt2000

What is Mashima's website?



http://www.zephyr.dti.ne.jp/~katumi60/index.html


Richie Dost Photos http://picasaweb.google.com/up1950s


Country: | Posts: 10219 Go to Top of Page

mmagliaro

Posted - 2008 February 19 :  10:04:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit mmagliaro's Homepage
I put this into the opening post of this thread and changed the title,
but then I realized that a lot of people who follow a thread automatically click down to the last page to see what's new, so I though I better put this here....

I received updated info from Micro-Loco-Motion (a.j.a. Eldon,
a.k.a. the motorman...)
He now has the plastic gearhead motors available priced between
$14 and $20, depending on which version you want. He has been able
to get a better deal and some volume pricing so his prices
have come way down.

He has not had time to update anything on his website for
sometime, and probably won't be able to soon. I suggest you
go to his website, www.micro-loco-motion.com, and use the
contact info to send him an email to ask about what you want.

I just wanted to make sure people know about this.
After all, motorman tries hard to accomodate the model railroad
community.

Please note, from all my experiments on this subject, that none of these
little cheap sub-$10 motors seems to be able to hold up for model
RR purposes. The Mashima 10x12x15 is a much better made and much better
running motor. You can get those from motorman, too. That was the solution
I ended up with for now ... buy the TinyTot gearmotor, take off the gearhead
and mount it on the Mashima motor. Not the cheapest solution (you're talking about $45 to buy the two pieces, and runs a bit too slow. I'm still in the hunt for a better general-purpose low-cost geared-down powerplant.

My kingdom for a cheap 2.5:1 gearhead!


-- Max

N Scale steam for the masses

Country: USA | Posts: 3890 Go to Top of Page

randgust

Posted - 2008 August 06 :  2:31:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit randgust's Homepage
I'm bumping this thing alive again because I just ordered a couple of the motor/gearhead combinations myself for testing.

Max, gotta love ya, and I agree with pretty much everything you've done here. Saved me a lot of grief!

One discovery to add - I've had some 'issues' with hard running of the Tomytec 12v motors, which are supposedly the same as the Bachmann ones. If you get them really hot, just once, you're toast. The brush arm design is a bent brass "J" shape that appears to loose tension with heating, and it lightens up, decreasing contact, increasing sparking, and everything goes to crap from there. It's not all its cracked up to be if you push it too hard. I have one motor that's become a lab rat for cleaning and testing now. That's the first 'new' motor that I've managed to get overheating, carbonizing of the commutator, and fire rings on WITHOUT overlubrication.

I have yet to have one of the Kato critter motors go bad, and I've had a lot of them.

I also have four Faulhaber-equipped critters now, and like you say, there's no substitute. They are just so silent.

I've had great luck with the tiny GM15 Solarbotics motor and gearhead on my Climax A kits, other than the 9mph top speed and a whine like an annoyed cat. That's OK for a geared steam loco, not much else. I have them in series with a 100-ohm resistor and everything has stayed nice and cool. Even at full slip the rpm doesn't drop, so it's in the safe zone. I think the motor life is a whole lot better if the basic indicator of trouble=heat.

While I admire your tenacity for sustained operations, I really think that there's a lot of applications for a motor that sees occasional service rather than continuous. That's why real locomotives have ammeters - even they have to be very aware of how long / how hot, before....POOF.



Santa Fe Albuquerque Third District in N
Man is a tool-using animal. Without tools he is nothing,
with tools he is all. Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)


Country: USA | Posts: 4411 Go to Top of Page

mmagliaro

Posted - 2008 August 07 :  3:43:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit mmagliaro's Homepage
Right back at ya, Randy. "Like an annoyed cat" HA HA... Yes, a gearmotor
is a bit noisy (unless it's a Faulhaber... then you have to look at the wheels
to know the motor is turning!)
But the Mashima really is quite a nice motor. MUCH quieter than any
of the tiny finger-brush motors.. The noise isn't all from the gearbox.
Some is the motor. It also helps big-time if you can avoid any
direct contact between the motor and the shell.

My obsession with extended running was driven by my desire to find an
economical solution that could actually work in a general-purpose
commercial loco - where the manufacturer really does have to make it
good enough so that it won't burn out if somebody puts it on
the track at an N-Trak show and just lets it run all day, for example.

I was hoping that if I could put together a 5:1 gearhead/motor for $45,
a manufacturer could certainly do it much cheaper, and maybe they
would get the hint... But I don't really know how to get their attention.


-- Max

N Scale steam for the masses

Country: USA | Posts: 3890 Go to Top of Page

NandW

Posted - 2008 August 07 :  6:42:05 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by mmagliaro
I was hoping that if I could put together a 5:1 gearhead/motor for $45,
a manufacturer could certainly do it much cheaper, and maybe they
would get the hint... But I don't really know how to get their attention.




A noble effort - not unnoticed here.



Country: Pitcairn Island | Posts: 4227 Go to Top of Page

randgust

Posted - 2008 August 07 :  11:05:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit randgust's Homepage
Well, Max, likewise. I'm looking for an 'upgrade' option to Kato critters and the Tomytec mechanisms, that are controllable, but still darn awful fast. The GM15's are the answer for the tiny Climax A's, but nothing else. So I'm looking for a commercially-available gearhead replacement that still keeps the total locomotive project (mechanism, body shell, and upgrades) under $100, resulting in significantly better low speed, torque, control, and performance. This has enough promise I just have to try it. That 2700 rpm option looks like just the ticket, with a 100-ohm dropping resistor in series.

I can already fit Faulhabers in my kits, so if somebody wants one to run until THEY burn out watching it, that option is available, but I don't think anybody but me has done that.

My favorite 'new' tiny standard motor has been the Kato NW2 motor; that deserves a lot more attention than it has got, but man, I wish they sold that transverse gearbox with it.



Country: USA | Posts: 4411 Go to Top of Page

Chris333

Posted - 2008 August 08 :  12:27:38 AM  Show Profile
Guess I never posted here before, but I did up my 0-8-0 just like Max did and she is still running.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVqjMpK8AM




http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=3174
http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333
http://www.youtube.com/user/Schmuck804
http://community.webshots.com/user/chris333333

Country: | Posts: 3958 Go to Top of Page

victor miranda

Posted - 2008 August 08 :  12:49:51 AM  Show Profile
Hi Randgust,
Kato's new motor is impressive.
I know it has three poles and that does not please me.
Now when you realize it has a lot of power and is fairly small, it becomes worth considering.
It does cog at slow speeds, no doubt.
The problem is that there are no good alternatives, in that there are no 5 poles that small for a reasonable price.
Nor are there many three poles that will hold up in model rail service.
(as this thread points out)

I'd love it if Kato would make it about 5 maybe 8mm shorter.
then I'd be pleased to use it in critters.

I believe the dimensions are 7.7 x 11.6 x 22.2 mm for the Kato small motor.
Can you imagine that motor shortened to 16mm?

There are a lot of critters that would be quite buildable as a result.

v



Country: | Posts: 4519 Go to Top of Page

randgust

Posted - 2008 August 16 :  9:06:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit randgust's Homepage
Well, Victor, I got my gearmotors in yesterday, and immediately started expirimenting. I wanted to see how they would do in my Whitcomb switcher kits (using the Tomytec mechanism) and the GE 70-tonners (using the Kato 11-105) as a relatively inexpensive alternative to the stock 'fast' motors.

They really are the same size motor frame as the Kato 11-105, which is now 12v instead of the original 3v with a 100-ohm resistor.

I put a 1/8 watt 100-resistor in series with the motor to test a Whitcomb chassis. The flywheel was easily drilled out to fit on the output shaft and get the universal on. I reassambled the drive, it works, and top speed looks to be about 30mph, but before I could test it, it kept stopping... Hmmmm.

In that situation, a 1/8 watt resistor isn't even close to enough wattage. It got hot enough to break solder joints to the resistor!

And I didn't like the way it ran. Same 'surge' issues as the original Kato critter. If you pushed it to full slip, Poof. The resistor goes nuts.

So I'm expirimenting with mounting the gearhead on the 12v motor, by cutting the shaft and grinding the "D" shape on it. I'm not sure how practical that is, but I'm willing to try it. I know the 12V Kato motors are pretty good and solved the original performance issues.




Country: USA | Posts: 4411 Go to Top of Page
Page: of 11 Previous Topic: Changing siderod location on LL 2-8-8-2 Topic Next Topic: NP Intermountain FP7s  
 Forum Locked |   Topic Locked |   Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Jump To:
Atlas Model Railroad Co. © 1709-2011 Atlas Models Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.77 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000