Atlas Model Railroad Co. - Adding rivet detail - rivets vs "dimples"
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 Adding rivet detail - rivets vs "dimples"
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Mike G

Posted - 2007 May 16 :  7:37:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mike G's Homepage
If I had a nickel for every time I tried to make something look better only to make it look worse I'd be rich. You're a brave man if you attempt this one!

http://photobucket.com/MikeG-Trains http://www.youtube.com/user/MrTraindude


Country: USA | Posts: 1049 Go to Top of Page

leighant

Posted - 2007 May 16 :  10:15:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit leighant's Homepage
Real scale rivets would be awfully small and hard to see. Imperfectly made rivets would probably show up something awful. And you KNOW the rivets as they came on the model are not really right.

Here is a chicken compromise.

Step 1. Sand or file away the "wrong" rivets. You can probably do this neatly if you are even considering attempting to re-rivet the tender.

Step 2. There is no step 2. Stop after step 1. NO rivet detail will probably look better than prototypically-incorrect rivet detail or imperfectly applied rivet detail.

Just my chicken opinion. Byaaack-bak-bak-ba-bak!


Santa Vaca & Santa Fe Rwy. Holy Cow!

Country: USA | Posts: 757 Go to Top of Page

Lou D

Posted - 2007 May 16 :  11:53:28 PM  Show Profile
Max,I think dimples next to rivets are gonna stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.I kinda like FBNengineer's idea,drill dimples,then put drops of white glue in them.If you're not happy with a rivet after it's dry,just rip it out,and do it over again.Can't be much worse than doing marker lights with micro crystal clear.You could even do what I do for marker lights/number boards.I mix a little paint in the MCC.Black for black boards,red/green/ETC,you could mix a high vis color,or even black to make it easier to work with..


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nkalanaga

Posted - 2007 May 17 :  12:12:51 AM  Show Profile
The dimples do work, as I've used them. The secret is that plastic won't compress under the light pressure used, so it flows UP around the hole, leaving a circular ridge. As small as N scale rivets are, it takes a magnifying glass to see the difference. Whether they will match the original rivets is another question which I can't answer.

N. Kalanaga
Be well.

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mmagliaro

Posted - 2007 May 17 :  02:03:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit mmagliaro's Homepage
Chris, that brass etched tender side is AMAZING. I think you are too hard on yourself
about them not being perfectly even. They look dang perfect to me!

And even so, I'm sure you've been up near a real steam loco. The rivets are really
not uniform at all, nor are they all that evenly spaced or in nice straight lines.
True, down at N Scale, they appear straighter. But my point is, we are a little
over-obsessing about perfectly straight rivet lines.

I'm happy as long as they don't call attention to themselves.

I fooled around with dimples with drops of glue in them tonight. I'm not feeling the love.
I just can't get evenly-sized, evenly-formed drops to sit in the dimples.
Actually, the drilled dimples look far better because I could at least
make them uniform and straight.

I'll be doing some more experimenting with this over the next day or so.



-- Max

N Scale steam for the masses

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victor miranda

Posted - 2007 May 17 :  11:13:09 AM  Show Profile
Hi Max,
the pressing a pin into styrene both makes a
crater, raised sides and hole in the center.

then just paint it. no filling required.

even pinning helps.

the part that bugs me the most is that
rivets made to n-scale dimensions will not show
up under the paint.
I have made dots of plastic using stretched styrene and salamii slicing with razor blade.
The paint completely hid them.

Right now I am really liking the spray paint mask idea.

v



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Skibbe

Posted - 2007 May 17 :  12:13:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit Skibbe's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by victor miranda

Hi Max,
the pressing a pin into styrene both makes a
crater, raised sides and hole in the center.

then just paint it. no filling required.

even pinning helps.

the part that bugs me the most is that
rivets made to n-scale dimensions will not show
up under the paint.
I have made dots of plastic using stretched styrene and salamii slicing with razor blade.
The paint completely hid them.

Right now I am really liking the spray paint mask idea.

v



Last time I had to match rivet strips was on an HO model, but it would work the same in N. Like Victor says, a pin prick will disturb the plastic, leaving a crater with pushed up sides. So, use this to your advantage... push the pin in at a 45* angle from the bottom. You get a pushed up rivet, with the pin hole almost completely hidden underneath the hump when looking from the side, and completely invisible from above. If you are looking upwards at the side, you see some indication, but how often are our layouts high enough?

The vertical panel lines on the blanked out middle window section was done like this:



Mike Skibbe
www.modutrak.com
www.model160.com

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mmagliaro

Posted - 2007 May 19 :  2:28:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit mmagliaro's Homepage
Well, there were some very clever suggestions in all your replies. I experimented with pins, holes, drops of glue (applied with pins, toothpicks, and syringes)...
but in the end, what seemed to look best to me was just holes.

So, I shaved and sanded off the diagonal rivets, and used a steel rule and a #80 drill in a pin vise to just drill tiny holes. I found that any type of glue dot ended up calling more attention to itself.

One nice side effect is that this forced me to strip off the primer and do a better job smoothing the seams than I originally had done.

So, here's how it looks. There is a coat of black primer on this.
I know you can see the difference, but honestly, I like it a lot better than having the diagonal rivet line.
BTW, there are other places that have drilled holes besides the obvious 2 vertical lines. I can't even see where they are anymore. This is a macro photo taken from about 6 inches away. In real life, I can't see the holes at all.




(Yes, the rivet line on the right end is offset about 1/3 of the way up. That's how it was molded into the tender shell).


-- Max

N Scale steam for the masses

Country: USA | Posts: 3890 Go to Top of Page

victor miranda

Posted - 2007 May 19 :  11:33:21 PM  Show Profile
Max,
It looks good in the photos.

steady as she goes.

v steaming the Atlantic m



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mmagliaro

Posted - 2007 May 20 :  03:01:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit mmagliaro's Homepage
Thank you, Victor. The close-up photos are really the only place it shows.
When I finished it and looked at it close up with my eyes, I was pleasantly surprised
at how good it looked. I only worried when I saw the macro pictures. But really,
that's how it always is. Macro photos are arficially cruel.


-- Max

N Scale steam for the masses

Country: USA | Posts: 3890 Go to Top of Page

jmlaboda

Posted - 2007 May 22 :  06:16:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit jmlaboda's Homepage
I recently purchased an old copy of Model Railroader, the July 1998 issue, because of an article by Dick Scott dealing with this vary issue. In the article he describes how he created rivet patterns on a model of a Brill gas-electric that he built in O scale, using a lightbox to help determine the placement of the rivets on the sides end ends.

While I have not yet tried his method in N-scale the lightbox method does appear to have at least some merit and for any interested I highly recommend the article. One should note, though, that the rivet pattern itself must be drilled into a pattern die made from a sheet of metal, which in turn is used to help place the rivet pattern on the styrene being embossed, but once the pattern is drilled into the metal its uses easily can be seen.

A copy of the article can be obtained through Kalmbach Publishing or you could likely obtain a complete issue from either Kalmbach or railpub.com, which was where I have acquired a number of back issues, as far back as 1951. http://railpub.com


jerry
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