Atlas Model Railroad Co. - DCC vs DC
Atlas Model Railroad Co.
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Atlas Model Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Rules   FAQ  
Active Topics | Members | Online Users | Forum Archive | Basic Forum (Mac / Netscape Users) | Search | Statistics
[ Active Members: 0 | Anonymous Members: 0 | Guests: 71 ]  [ Total: 71 ]  [ Newest Member: jjbern ]
 All Forums
 Atlas Model Railroad Forums
 HO Scale Model Railroad Forum
 DCC vs DC
Next Page
 Forum Locked |   Topic Locked |   Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic: DCC: Is it for me? Topic Next Topic: Why Would One Not Be Pleased With This Forum?
Page: of 5

crabster

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  6:47:09 PM  Show Profile
I didn't want to hijack Jim Six's thread. Jim you say your not going to convert to DCC and Akita went back to DC, why? I'm curious because I'm on the fence between the two. I just did a op session on the Roanoke & Western (they are using Rail Command) and I gotta admit, it was pretty cool being able to operate engines independantly within inches of each other.

Country: | Posts: 681

Monster Railroad

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  7:07:04 PM  Show Profile
This was directed personally to Jim 6 so I think you really should have hijacked his thread. This is an ongoing discusion that will keep going round and round and round. I hate DCC I love DCC I hate DC I love DC, blah blah blah.

A2THAMAY
Southern California Desert Rail Division

View my favorite website made just for me which is great
http://www.trainweb.org/socaldesertrail/


VIEW MY WEBSITE ON PICTURETRAIL
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=14129360&uid=7430437
#2 http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=15816537&uid=8509219

Country: USA | Posts: 1614 Go to Top of Page

atsfman

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  7:09:15 PM  Show Profile
Nah! What others think of DCC or other subjects doesn't really interest me because I have made my choice and am happy with it. Just a lot of keyboard time wasted to argue it.

There is a DCC forum on Atlas where you can get with others and have the great debate.
Bob


Bob Miller
Modeling the Santa Fe
in Oklahoma 1989
http://atsfmodelrailroads.com

Edited by - atsfman on 2006 November 22 7:09:57 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 2962 Go to Top of Page

Bowers

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  7:12:56 PM  Show Profile
Depending on YOUR needs and wants it is good or not good. To each their own.

If you are using DC and it works well and you see no 'need' to change (and spend $$$$$) then it makes no sense to.

It all depends and there is no right answer, only yours.




Country: | Posts: 1296 Go to Top of Page

Luther Brefo

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  7:58:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luther Brefo's Homepage
What is this DC you speak of? :)

DCC, the right way to go.


Luther Brefo
www.lalrailfan.net

Country: USA | Posts: 1362 Go to Top of Page

knuguy

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  8:11:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit knuguy's Homepage
If you have a DC layout and are happy, I would stay with it. If you are starting fresh or new, DCC is a must in my book. I however do not have a lot of non DCC equipment to start with though. If you have older units, adding decoders can be costly. The ability to control throttle and turnouts in your hand is very nice


Country: | Posts: 553 Go to Top of Page

Jim 6

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  8:21:48 PM  Show Profile
Hi Crabster,

I will answer your question, but not join in on any DC vs. DCC arguements. There are too many "meat heads" that think that whatever their preference is, is right and that others that go the other way are screwed.

Seriously, for my single track branchline that can accomodate no more than two trains out in the railroad (beyond the yard) at a time, I see no need for DCC. I don't need a s*%& load of blocks since there won't be oodles of trains runing at one time. I also don't need a large buss wire to feed the main every so many feet either, which offsets some of the recognized wiring advantage of DCC.

One reason that so many folks go with DCC is to have sound. Depending upon your railroad design and function, you don't need DCC for sound. In fact, the highest quality sound is non-DCC. Since I will only have one or two trains running at a time, I can use under the layout speakers fed by the same absolutely fantastic sound system that INRAIL uses. That sound is undescribably more refined and more realistic than any of the onboard sound systems that go with DCC. Now, if you have a more complicated railroad with multiple trains running at any given time, this won't work and you have an excellent reason for DCC - if you desire sound.

Another significant reason for me is a very simply one. I don't wish to spend my $$ on DCC. THe difference between a DC loco and a DCC/Sound loco is ballpark $100 per loco! Simply not worth it to me.

And,...I am very happy with DC.

These are all reason enoug. None of us has to justify or defend a decision of DC or DCC. As one of the other fellows already said, to each their own. I am happy for all that are pleased with their decision whether it be DC or DCC. And, unlike some folk, I don't have an attidude about this topic.

Jim



quote:
Originally posted by crabster






Edited by - Jim 6 on 2006 November 22 8:26:51 PM

Country: | Posts: 1533 Go to Top of Page

rsn48

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  8:25:38 PM  Show Profile
Even though the DCC/DC debate has wained in the past while and some folks are tired of arguing it, its worth doing as folks who are finally examining the issue for the first time will ask the question time and again on this forum - a place to ask questions about the hobby. So I'll take a quick stab at the pro side of the DCC argument. The DCC forum isn't the place to ask this question as logically that forum is populated by converts, better here where there is a wider range of opinion.

DCC can simply wiring on a layout, but DCC wiring isn't always simple if you extend it to signalling, computer running of one part of your layout (lets say staging), etc. We are in a transition era where the trend in the hobby is to DCC, you can even get competing sets of "basic DCC" equipment to have a layout up on running. These simple systems are great for a smaller layout, lets say a 4 by 8 where you want to run more than one engine and not worry about wiring issues.

For some reason, some folks seem to have problems with their DCC; however layouts I've owned and used on others layouts, problems have been very few. It must be remembered that problems can occur even on top notch DC layouts; there are no problem free electrical and/or electronic systems.

Over time, like computers - which DCC really is - the uses for DCC has expanded. Originally it was to run many trains without "block wiring." Then sound and lights came along and many wanted that. Computer running of a layout hasn't become popular but you could have your staging automated if you wish, but again not a popular use of DCC. Signalling is coming on big in DCC as plug and play units are becoming available.

Wiring and electronics "on average" is the most challenging aspect of the hobby for many. Slowly DCC has become more user friendly; the original Digitrax system wasn't to user friendly and after much gnarling of the teeth Digitrax introduced easier cabs for the uninitiated to use.

Because the hobby is in transition, you have religious zealots on either side of the question - to DCC or not to DCC. If you're a lone wolf modeller and don't have folks over to operate your trains, it possible you don't need it. If your a lone wolf modeller and would like a computer to run a train while you run yours, you'll need it (but again, this is a very unlikely scenario).

What I find frustrating on DC layouts that invite folks in to operate is that it can take a great deal of time to "learn the layout." There are a number of layouts here in Greater Vancouver that I have attended and when it is DC, I usually will take anywhere from 15 to 40 times of running to really feel comfortable with the layout. With DC you learn the layout, with DCC you learn the system so that even if you are a Digitrax guy invited over to a Lenz system, you know the principles of how it should operate, but you will have to relearn the buttons and knobs. Going from a Digitrax layout to another Digitrax layout can be fun as you can bring your own "cab" along and there is no learning curve.

On larger DC layouts, you will usually find the electrical guys whose speciality is building and keeping the system operational. I can guarantee you that in club layouts you will find a couple of geeky electrical sorts. On larger DCC systems, you will find like minded electronic geeks keeping the layout operational.

With guys who have transitioned layouts, sometimes problems can abound, but if the system is switched over and good practises such as using the Big Book of DCC as your bible, problems should be reduced. One rule is simple: you can never have to many feeder wires, but you can have to few.

The "signal" is everything in DCC so it is wise to pay attention to the size of wiring you use for your main (bus) wiring, and the size of wiring for your feeders - the longer the feeder, the bigger the wire, the longer the bus the bigger the wire.

DCC is more expensive, especially if you have a substantial fleet of engines to convert. Every engine needs to have a decoder (I lie here but not much) and if you are smart, you'll break your layout up into power districts if it is larger. Then if you have reversing loops in which you want automatic turnout throws, the expense goes up, light and sound decoders sends the price up, signalling with required block detection send the price even higher.

A trend in Europe which hasn't hit here in a big way is to offer starter systems for the brand new guy in the hobby with DCC included.

DCC is better if you know you want signals for example as the wiring is definitely simpler but the expense is higher than DC.

I don't like DC as I run on a number of other people's layout and if I haven't run on "their" DC layout for a while it shows as I have forgotten exactly how their system works; this is really true if they have "grabber blocks" which I detest.


Rick Nicholson


Country: Canada | Posts: 880 Go to Top of Page

dave1905

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  8:26:10 PM  Show Profile
It just depends on what you want. With all the sound, DCC accessories, back EMF, etc. DCC has a lot of advantages obviously if you don't want DCC then you don't have to do it. My suggestion is operate on a DC layout and then operate on DCC layout. You'll be able to witness the difference.

For me freedom from block toggles and control panels was worth the cost. Everything else is gravy.

Dave H.



Country: | Posts: 1130 Go to Top of Page

Jim 6

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  8:34:41 PM  Show Profile
knuguy,

I am into realistic models and realistic operation. Controlling switches (not turnouts) in your hand-held is not realistic. Real train crewmen have to hand throw many switches. I want to do the same with my railroad because I want to have the feel of being a train crewman.

If a switch is remotely operated on the prototype as some are, then for realism such a switch should be remotely operated on the model railroad, again, if realism is important.

Please don't take me wrong. I am not disagreeing with what you said. The hand-held switch throw is convenient. And if you are not in a realistic operating session, then throwing a switch with your finger tips on the throttle is nice. As the other fellow said, to each their own and I am happy for all!

Jim

quote:
Originally posted by knuguy

If you have a DC layout and are happy, I would stay with it. If you are starting fresh or new, DCC is a must in my book. I however do not have a lot of non DCC equipment to start with though. If you have older units, adding decoders can be costly. The ability to control throttle and turnouts in your hand is very nice




Country: | Posts: 1533 Go to Top of Page

Jim 6

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  8:38:56 PM  Show Profile
Good suggestion Dave, but you gotta be careful because not all layouts are created equal. Some layout designs lend themselves to DCC as a natural choice. Others do not. If one could operate the SAME layout on DC, then the next ops session with DCC, then some rational conclusions could be made. But there aren't many rational people in this arguement! LOL

Jim

quote:
Originally posted by dave1905

It just depends on what you want. With all the sound, DCC accessories, back EMF, etc. DCC has a lot of advantages obviously if you don't want DCC then you don't have to do it. My suggestion is operate on a DC layout and then operate on DCC layout. You'll be able to witness the difference.

For me freedom from block toggles and control panels was worth the cost. Everything else is gravy.

Dave H.




Country: | Posts: 1533 Go to Top of Page

Monster Railroad

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  9:15:07 PM  Show Profile
Nice book rsn48

A2THAMAY
Southern California Desert Rail Division

View my favorite website made just for me which is great
http://www.trainweb.org/socaldesertrail/


VIEW MY WEBSITE ON PICTURETRAIL
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=14129360&uid=7430437
#2 http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=15816537&uid=8509219

Country: USA | Posts: 1614 Go to Top of Page

basementdweller

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  9:58:49 PM  Show Profile
I am pro DCC.
One misconception regarding DCC layouts is that there is less wiring. Not necessarily true.

A DCC layout has simpler wiring, but not less wiring.
I think some just like to make it more complicated than it needs to be.


It's all scenery.

Country: USA | Posts: 2672 Go to Top of Page

Jim 6

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  10:12:15 PM  Show Profile
Basement,

I like your honesty. You apparently have no ax to grind. You ar ewelcome to visit my home and see my layout anytime!

Jim

quote:
Originally posted by basementdweller

I am pro DCC.
One misconception regarding DCC layouts is that there is less wiring. Not necessarily true.

A DCC layout has simpler wiring, but not less wiring.
I think some just like to make it more complicated than it needs to be.




Country: | Posts: 1533 Go to Top of Page

csxnsdan

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  10:43:11 PM  Show Profile
I went with DCC because of the independent control.I also like the Digitrax throttle design which sold me on thier system.Block control is equally nice and you dont have to add all of those receivers.I have ran trains on both control systems and DC is great if you know the layout.If it wasnt for the lighting effects and on board sound that I can achieve with DCC I would have stayed with DC.I dont think either is better than the other,all depends on your wants and needs.Dan

It aint easy being cheesy.

Country: | Posts: 719 Go to Top of Page

Beavis

Posted - 2006 November 22 :  10:51:15 PM  Show Profile
One thing to keep in mind for DCC is that the systems may be different. If you have the chance to operate on other layouts and can see first-hand how the systems are, it may make a difference. I was very anti-DCC for a long time but have been impressed with the Easy-DCC system. I don't think I would have been as open to DCC before experiencing the system firsthand. I think the main point is, and has been made by many, is choose what is right for you and what you are comfortable with.


Country: | Posts: 131 Go to Top of Page
Page: of 5 Previous Topic: DCC: Is it for me? Topic Next Topic: Why Would One Not Be Pleased With This Forum?  
 Forum Locked |   Topic Locked |   Printer Friendly
Next Page
Jump To:
Atlas Model Railroad Co. © 1709-2011 Atlas Models Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 1.12 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000