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richhotrain

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  05:16:37 AM  Show Profile
I own several 60' passenger cars that were manufactured by Rivarossi or Athearn. More recently Walthers Trainline sold some 60' passenger cars that I believe were actually Rivarossi stock (or from Rivarossi molds). But, lately, you can't find 60' passenger cars anywhere, not even on eBay (except for an occasional RPO).

I recently redid my layout so now 85' passenger cars would run and look prototypical, but I still favor 60' passenger cars. It seems to me that most layouts are smaller rather than larger, so I would think that most modellers would prefer 60' passenger cars even if they are not prototypical. Any thoughts on this?

Does anyone know if any of the manufacturers including Atlas are contemplating the release of 60' passenger cars. Seems to me that they could sell a bundle using a whole bunch of roadnames and color schemes.

Country: | Posts: 238

hunter48820

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  05:34:41 AM  Show Profile

With everyone appearing to produce more accurate and prototypical equipment (to a point), I think that there is less chance for these cars to be made as new releases.

There might still be some starter trainsets that could appear using these older models but I have no idea.

One of the problems is that there were really very few short passenger cars if you don't count certain types of headend equipment. Some older (pre teens) will be shorter but I don't know if many were as short as 60'. Others that come to mind may be some of the early commuter cars but again, they were longer than 60'.

If you don't mind the older style Harriman passenger cars that were made by MDC, you may be able to search for those. A thought would be to contact Horizon Hobbies or Athearn (who now own the MDC line) to see if any are available or will be in the future.

They probably won't give you an answer but at least they'll know that there is interest in them.

Just my thoughts!


Best,
Andy Keeney
Dewitt, MI

You can see the Nashville Road Railimages Album at:
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/3019

Always look out for #1, but don't step in #2!!




Edited by - hunter48820 on 2006 September 15 05:36:57 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 1659 Go to Top of Page

wc581

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  08:31:27 AM  Show Profile
We still have CNW Coaches in stock packaged in the train line boxes.

Mike Slater
Gary's Hobby Center



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Steve Wagner

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  08:46:24 AM  Show Profile
The last post is very interesting, because Walthers has listed the Chicago & NorthWestern cars as sold out (or at least out of stock) for a long time, and also because the coach and the combine, at least, are faithful, full-length models of equipment the C&NW used in suburban service. (Many baggage and RPO cars were also just 60' long.)


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Orsonroy

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  09:18:11 AM  Show Profile
There are a few of the Trainline/Rivarossi 60-footers on Ebay. Search under "trainline 60" and "rivarossi 60".

There are loads of the old MDC/Roundhouse 50-foot Overland cars on Ebay as well. Search under "overland roundhouse".

If you're up to a little kitbashing, try looking for either the older Rivarossi heavyweights or the Roundhouse Pullman Palace cars. There are hundreds of these cars on Ebay, all going for pennies on the dollar. The PP cars are especially nice for kitbashes, and you can crank out lots of models of older wood heavyweights, a car that was hugely common but is rarely modeled.


Ray Breyer

Modeling the NKP in Peoria, 1950.
"Steam: the only choice!"

Country: USA | Posts: 649 Go to Top of Page

wjstix

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  09:50:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit wjstix's Homepage
Yes all four Walthers/Rivarossi cars are accurate models of real cars. The coach and combine are based on CNW's "utility" coaches and combines. The 60' RPO and Baggage cars appear to be based on the CNW also, but near-duplicates were used by many railroads.

Contrary to what many people think (probably because all Amtrak Superliners are the same length) only some passenger cars in the heavyweight or streamliner era were 80'-85' long. All but a very few Head-end cars like RPO and Baggage cars were in the 60'-70' range. Many coaches and combines were around 70' long. So a local train with a 60' baggage car and say two Rivarossi or IHC 70' coaches would be very prototypical.

Back to the original question...MDC makes/made a full line of "Harriman" 60 foot cars, including baggage, combine, coach, diner, sleeper and observation. Not sure now how available they are since MDC was bought by Athearn, but you can find these cars at hobby shops, flea markets, and ebay.

Also, Athearn makes both streamline and heavyweight cars that might work on your layout. In the heavyweight line (if I remember right) their RPO is 63' and baggage car is 67' long, and their coach is 72' (all prototypical) and their diner, sleeper, and observation car are all 80' cars shortened to 72'. They are based on ATSF prototypes. Their streamliners are similarly shortened versions of the longest cars. All of the Athearn and MDC cars come with truck mounted couplers and should work down to 18" radius, I've run some of my MDC and Athearn cars on a 22"R section of my old layout and they've worked fine, as did "full length" Rivarossi and IHC cars with truck mounted couplers.


Stix

BNSF / CP to you...CB&Q / Milwaukee Road to me !!

Country: USA | Posts: 2266 Go to Top of Page

TREBOR

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  11:36:52 AM  Show Profile
Scale length only please. Plenty of correct shorties to model. Leave the long cars long though.

DIAPHONE 32'

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astrosa

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  1:09:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit astrosa's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by wjstix

only some passenger cars in the heavyweight or streamliner era were 80'-85' long


If you had just said heavyweight era, I'd definitely agree with you. Car lengths varied a lot more during that time period. However, the vast majority of streamliners were built to what then became the standard 85' length - Amtrak's Superliners and other newer equipment were simply following this practice, which had been in place for about 40 years by the time they were built. You're correct, streamlined head-end cars were often found in 60' length for RPOs or 72' for baggage cars, but many full 85' versions of those car types existed as well.

If you look at the streamlined cars offered by Athearn, Model Power and Life-Like, the only ones that could be considered scale length are in fact the baggage and RPO cars. There were never any 60' streamlined coaches, sleepers, or food-service cars that I know of, and in fact the shortest streamlined coach I've heard of is a 79' style that the Southern Pacific used.

Here's my question, though. Do you think many modelers would prefer 60' autoracks even if they're not prototypical? Do you think any manufacturer would contemplate making such a product?


Alex Stroshane
--
Amtrak Prototype & Model
http://www.trainweb.org/asamtrak911

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rayw46

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  1:40:20 PM  Show Profile
I think I understand the problem that railhotrain is having. He has a layout with 22" of maybe even 18" radius cruves. An 80' passenger car simply won't look good on these curves. He is looking for the selectively compressed model of these longer heavyweight (and I would hope even lightweight) passenger cars that are a scale 60' long. Rivarossi or Walthers did make the heavyweights, but the last runs, about a year or so ago, were only in five car sets, and they went like hotcakes, I think because of railhotrain's observation, that most model railroaders don't have large layouts and need these smaller versions of longer cars. It may not be prototypical, but we all have to make concessions, in life and in modelling.


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FrankCampagna

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  2:37:39 PM  Show Profile
quote:
but the last runs, about a year or so ago, were only in five car sets, and they went like hotcakes,


Which proves a lot of people want these. We don't all have huge rooms with lots of time to put into it. Small layouts need things like this. Frank



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JeffShultz

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  2:50:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit JeffShultz's Homepage
This is one of the reasons I'd like to see Atlas do some "plain jane" (no-logo NAHX or FLIX or similar) grey versions of the Trainman covered hopper. It simply fits better on smaller layouts that still need covered hoppers.

It also helps if you want a decent number of cars in a train but don't quite have the space.

Selective compression all the way, eh?


Jeff Shultz
Willamette & Pacific - Oregon Electric Branch
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
Now part of the Model Railroad Hobbyist crew - come join us at
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com

Country: USA | Posts: 3176 Go to Top of Page

Brakie

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  2:56:36 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by FrankCampagna

quote:
but the last runs, about a year or so ago, were only in five car sets, and they went like hotcakes,


Which proves a lot of people want these. We don't all have huge rooms with lots of time to put into it. Small layouts need things like this. Frank


Absolutely! Athearn is still making their passenger cars..After all not everybody has a basement size layout with sweeping curves or the $40-60.00 needed for each passenger car..
Come to think of it remove those Athearn passenger cars from the club's layout and you will cut the passenger cars by at least 60%!


Larry
Summerset Ry.

Edited by - Brakie on 2006 September 15 2:58:39 PM

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Don Gibson

Posted - 2006 September 15 :  4:54:48 PM  Show Profile
THE 72' CAR is a reasonable compromise. Scale Passenger cars don't really 'work' on less-than-Scale curves.

4X8 layouts are simpler to make - even when there is a larger room. Look at the huge sales of unrealistic Code 100 track products, because it's cheaper to buy. (Especially when it works.

The difference in modelers (and people) is largely dependent on the the CHOICES they make.
quote:
Here's my question, though. Do you think many modelers would prefer 60' autoracks even if they're not prototypical? Do you think any manufacturer would contemplate making such a product?

YES. WHEN sales of the longer cars fall off.


Don Gibson
                                      ______
                       I I__()____||__| |||||
                          ((((|__|----------|  |  ||||||||||
                     //---O O O O--OO oo oo
                     #######################     

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jwmurrayjr

Posted - 2006 September 16 :  08:58:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit jwmurrayjr's Homepage
Trainworld is still advertizing the Riv. 60' cars and at a very good price I think. Check out the ads in a recent MR.

4-car set for $69.00 in MR and online.

Have fun,





Jim Murray
The San Juan Southern RR

Edited by - jwmurrayjr on 2006 September 16 09:02:10 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 397 Go to Top of Page

Orsonroy

Posted - 2006 September 17 :  6:19:39 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Don Gibson

THE 72' CAR is a reasonable compromise. Scale Passenger cars don't really 'work' on less-than-Scale curves.



I've never been able to accept the line of thought that allows for the inaccurate shortening of passenger cars. Would modelers accept a compressed Big Boy? Or how about a 36 foot autorack? Maybe a "compressed" F7 with only one truck?

If your layout is too small to handle long cars, don't run them. If you've only got a 4x8, don't run SD-70s and spline cars; don't complain about their length and wish some manufacturer would come out with shortened versions so they'll "look right" on your small layout.

There are plenty of ACCURATE, prototypically-correct short passenger cars to model. If you only have 18" radius curves, how about modeling the early 1900s, when there were plenty of short cars running, instead of trying to model the Nebraska Zephyr with itty-bitty cars?


Ray Breyer

Modeling the NKP in Peoria, 1950.
"Steam: the only choice!"

Country: USA | Posts: 649 Go to Top of Page

Martin Goller

Posted - 2006 September 17 :  8:44:30 PM  Show Profile
Kind of funny to read the discussion turn to the option of producing shorter than scale length passenger cars. There is not one week going in the European forum discussions where the LACK of scale length cars and the sense or nonsense of shorter cars (1:100 or 1:93) is fought furiously. Naturally with no real solution or good answer...

And everyone brings up the great situation in the US where scale length is the norm in the model market...
Seems they are mistaken...

Shortening cars always seems to be a bit like Pandora's box... where to stop?
If you shorten, why bother with prototype variations? Just make a coach, a diner, an RPO, and a Pullman. Wait... that's Athearn's program.
Would switching scales be a better suggestion?
Or one Japanese verion of the hobby with extremely shortened equipment?

Martin





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