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Clarence Wheeler
USA
327 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2009 : 21:27:51
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| Is anyone else having trouble with the latest TCS decoders when entering low values in CV5 and CV6 to slow down and speed match locos? I have put a couple K1D4's in Kato SD70's and they have a fine smooth speed curve at full value. But when I enter avalue for CV5 below 200, I start to get a change of speed at only every other speed step. Like it is only using 14 speed steps instead of 28. Now it appears as though the thing is taking place with the AMD4 in an Atlas loco. I have some older Kato C 30-7's with M1 decoders that have a very nice slow speed curve with CV5 values at between 90-95, and CV6 at 50-55. I can't seem to slow these newer puppies down and get a decent smooth curve. |
Spike |
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Sharkman
USA
2179 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 23:54:21
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| You may want to try creating the speed table and adjusting CV66 (Forward Trim) and CV99 (Reverse Trim) to adjust the speed of the locomotives. I have found using the speed curve and the trim variables to be a much better way to speed match locomotives in both directions. There is no way to do that just using CV5 and CV6. |
Our Future is what We Make It!!!!!
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Clarence Wheeler
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2009 : 23:30:23
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| I am talking more about slowing them down first and then speed matching. 200 mph is a tad high for WOT, don't you think. |
Spike |
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Sharkman
USA
2179 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 01:20:23
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That was how I speed matched a dozen locomotives in less than one hour. I loaded the same speed table in every locomotive and used the trim to scale down the speed to a more normal rate. In each case the trim value was set to between 38 and 50 to scale out a top speed of 70 scale miles per hour. I used DecoderPro to make thing easier. Speed tables are a more accurate way to control the speed of the locomotive over the MAX and MID. The trim settings do not distort the speed table curve, they just modify the amplitude.
CV66 goes from 0 to 255 as a multiplier of the track power of sorts. So when CV66 = 127 that is considered 1, so the ratio of the power is the setting/127, so when you set it to CV66=50, (50/127), this dramatically slows down the locomotive by reducing the max speed to a little less than half of the full value. You can also go the other way to perk up locomotives that may be going a little too slow. CV95 does the same thing in the reverse direction.
It is important to do this, because not very many locomotives go the same speed both forward and reverse. I have had some units where CV66=44 in the forward direction and CV95=78 in the reverse direction for 100% throttle = 70 scale miles per hour. CV5 and CV6 apply the same settings in forward and reverse, so if your locomotives are the same in both directions, no problem. But that is not generally the case. |
Our Future is what We Make It!!!!!
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runfastcc
30 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 19:33:36
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Contact TCS and ask them. They answer email and phone daily
Runfastcc |
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runfastcc
30 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 19:39:32
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Contact TCS and ask them. They answer email and phone daily
Runfastcc |
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Clarence Wheeler
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 20:26:25
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| Sharkman, Thank you. I think I follow your method. I will give that a try. I wonder why they say nothing about the trim in the instructions. |
Spike |
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Clarence Wheeler
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 20:28:45
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| Sharkman, does it make a difference whether I have the BEMF turned on or off? |
Spike |
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Sharkman
USA
2179 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 01:41:24
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Hi,
I do not use BEMF with consisting, TCS setup is to use Dither when not using BEMF and I find that the performance is just fine using only Dither.
The other nice thing is that if you build static consists, you can turn off all of the lighting elements easily on the interior locomotives.
The part that gets a little tricky is the 3 point momentum setting, I am still trying to figure that out myself.
last, they say nothing about trim in the instructions because that is new to their decoders. Also, the trim only works when the speed table is used if I recall correctly.
Respectfully,
David |
Our Future is what We Make It!!!!!
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Clarence Wheeler
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 21:58:32
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OK Sharkmen, here is how it went last night. First I set up a speed table using the values in the example with the ibstrutions. Kind of a screwy table with CV 94 ending up at 255. First of did not woek at all. Slow, slow, slow, slow, jump to fast , fast, fast, etc. Ok, what is wrong? Aha! Have to get correct value in CV 29 to make the Loadable Speed tables active. Better , but very good. OK, then I made a speed table of my own starting with CV 2=4,then adding 4 to each CV, ending with CV 94= 112. then I set the trim at 60. This made avery nice speed curve I felt. I then tried adding 1 to CV 61 to turn on BEMF. No good. Thinghs go haywire. That is allright , because I don't use BEMF anyway. Then I ran out of time. Tonight , as time allows, I will play with the forward and reverse trims to even the two directions out. I feel this is working out quite well.
Now, my next questions are--------
What values do you use in your speed tables? and do you use the same speed table for all locos, then adjust from there with the trims?
Does this same method work the same with Digitrax and NCE decoders also?
By "static consists" do you mean advance consisting?
Acceleration and deceleration adjustments, I just noticed that section 7. CV 125-132 plus 3 & 4. That looks very interesting for later on.
If this works out as well as it appears, I have a lot of reprograming to do. I have about 40 or so locos all programmed with the mid and top volts method. I need to look into "decoder pro" I guess. Does that require computer?
I hope this discussion may help some others also. I sure was kind of "in the dark" so to speak. Thanx |
Spike |
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tome
60 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 12:46:39
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I had speed issues when trying to consist with the speed table(K1D4), the locos just jumped to high speed at half throttle. I disabled BEMF and now works fine, but I'm unable to adjust with decoderpro while the the loco is running , it takes the values but I dont see them take effect until I stop the loco then restart. SO matching loco can be challenging. I'm able able to see instant changes to CV when adjusting the min/max instead of speed table.Any ideas?
Tom |
Edited by - tome on 11/11/2009 12:51:39 |
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Sharkman
USA
2179 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 13:37:33
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Hi Spike,
Sorry it took a bit to get back to you.
I do not use the BEMF most of the time because I consist a lot. I only use it on locomotives I know I will not consist, like steamers or yard switchers.
I used DecoderPro to develop a speed table based on the class of locomotive. So there is an F Class where the curve maxes out at about 142, and the SD70 Class where the curve maxes out at 168. I did it this way because I wanted the same curve regardless of manufacturer for the locomotive type. Then I speed match using the trim settings.
As an example, let's take the Kato F-3 and the IM F-3. Each has the same curve, and to reach the same top end speed, the trim on the IM units was set to 112 and the Kato unit was set to 38. If you have DecderPro, "Free", software, I can send you a copy of the CV settings. I will try to get a screen capture and post it so this makes a little more sense. It does work on most computers because it was written in Java. So it works on Windows and Macs and I know a few folks using Linux with it. You will need to get a connection device to your DCC unit. Depending on what that is, there are solutions. DecpderPro does not support MRC controllers at this time though.
This method works with Digitrax decoders because they have supported Trim CV's, while only recently did TCS start doing so. I do not have any NCE decoders so I can not comment on them.
The mode of consisting I use is the Advanced, some places called Decoder Assisted consisting. But sometimes I use Simple consisting where I just adjust the light and give all of the locomotives the same address. I walk the line on the number of slots on my Super Chief, sometime running out, so I have to mix and match consists to the situation at hand.
Hope this Helps!
Respectfully,
David |
Our Future is what We Make It!!!!!
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Clarence Wheeler
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 23:07:45
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Good evening gents.
Sharkman' thanx for the info. I am having a busy week so it may take me awhile to experiment with this, but I will. My layout is on my first floor and my computer is on 2nd floor. I have to figure out how to connect them to use DecoderPro. Any suggestions? I have NCE ProCab. I use mostly Digitrax and TCS decoders. Obviously BEMF is not usable when using speed tables. That is fine.
Tom, hi, I seem to be having about the same issues as you. When I "program on the main" to change the trim value, I don't see a responce until I stop and restart the loco. This is a bit inconvenient. I wonder if there is a different way. What is your DCC system?
Later Guys |
Spike |
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Sharkman
USA
2179 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 00:08:52
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Spike
Maybe the best thing to do is have a small oval using something like the Kato M1 set and a few extra pieces to use as the programming track on a card table or something similar up by your computer.
By the way, I always moved the loco to the programming track when I did my adjustments.
David |
Our Future is what We Make It!!!!!
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DJCONWAY
USA
2096 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 08:16:20
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| Does the decoder in question support programming on the main? |
 Do your part buy stuff! |
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tome
60 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 12:18:04
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Spike-I'm using a Digitrax Zephyr, OPS in direct byte mode, I'm going to experiment with other modes. I don't have an issue adjusting the speed tables "on the go" with my NCE or Digitrax decoders.
I tried the TCS decoders in multiple modes in OPS and still have to stop the loco then restart to see changes.
I emailed TCS, they sent me a link to how to adjust speed table article, article didnt help.
Other CVs take affect w/o having to stop, ex. lighting.
Tom |
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