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bhamly
USA
674 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2004 : 17:07:00
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There are 3 things I can say that I don't like about 3-rail: center rail, swinging pilots and couplers. I feel that currently it is to late to convert to 2-rail. I'll do that when I win the Lotto or something.
Now, I can except the center rail and the pilots but not the couplers so I will change them. Atlas will be bringing scale electro couplers out in coming months so I feel that this is the right time to start.
Upon my examination of my rolling stock, all Atlas O of course, I notice that there are two small holes at the ends of almost every car. I did not see any on my SSW Double Sheathed Boxcars. From the pics in Jim's article I'm guessing that these are in fact the mounting holes for the Kadee gear boxes? What will be the correct and safest way to add holes?
Jim also talked about changing the trucks entirely so that the cars sit at the correct height. This is not necessary since Atlas O cars already sit at the correct height?
What will be involved in converting Engines to the electro couplers? Taking the shell off > seperating the motor and truck > swaping the couplers?
TAStudios has electro couplers advertised at $12/each. Will Atlas offer the same price?
Thanks for any help.
Bruce
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www.northernogauge.com |
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bhamly
USA
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 17:43:46
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I for got an important question. I will be adding O-90 this summer along with the O-72 I already have.
Can long cars like the Horizons and 89" flatcars be changed or will they not work on the O-72?
Bruce
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www.northernogauge.com |
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ctxm
304 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 20:28:08
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Hi Bruce, On my little 2 rail layout I have 46inch radius curves which would be approximatly O-92. I can run MTH autoracks and centerbeam cars which are roughly 75 feet long, they don't look good on these curves but they get around them. The atlas catalog lists the 89 foot flats at minium radius 36inch which seems too sharp to me for such a long car.
Usually problems will show up more when you try to couple a long car to a short car, if all the cars are similiar the overhangs all balance out.
KD's are surprisingly able to handle quite sharp curves, I had a trolley layout once with 15 inch radius curves and the KDs still worked fine on 40 foot boxcars and steeple cab locos. I doubt that atlas couplers work as good as Kds, most my stuff has KDs instead, the atlas couplers come with too stiff springs so If I keep the atlas couplers I put in softer springs.
Adding body mounted scale size couplers will do a lot for the appearance of your rolling stock, I've got some old vintage models with scale couplers and lionel trucks and they look much better than the stock lionel cars.
As for how to mount the couplers , just screw them on to the bottom at the right height, if they are too high or too low you can add plastic shims or grind-file off a bit of the body bottom, nothing hi-tech needed, I use 2-56 machine screws in drilled and tapped holes for metal car floors and 2-56 wood screws or pan head selftapping screws for plastic or wood floors ....dave
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bhamly
USA
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 00:10:28
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Dave,
Comparing 2 and 3-rail curves is much different then I thought. I'm guessing that these long cars will work, but will be tight.
Another forum member told me that Kadees are not strong enough for long consists; have you experienced this? I pulled my longest consist last week of 22 cars. It was very nice looking but much to long for my layout.
Could someone give me a conversion - 2-rail curves = 3-rail?
Bruce
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www.northernogauge.com |
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Phil1361
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 00:33:32
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Bruce,
2-Rail curves are given in "Radius" while 3-Rail curves are given in "Diameter". To convert 2-Rail curves to 3-Rail just double the number.
Hence, Daves curves are 46" Radius which would be O92 in 3-Rail.
To go the the other way just divide by 2. Such as O72 curves in 3-Rail would be 36" Radius curves in 2-Rail.
Happy Railroading
Phil |
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ctxm
304 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 00:50:50
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Hi Bruce, 22 cars is a good sized train, I'd like to have seen that. I don't have room for very long trains on my present little layout but Kd's are plenty strong enough if you don't jerk them around. If I hold on to the caboose I can slip the wheels of my locos without breaking the Kds. You can break anything if you don't know how to use it correctly, real trains must take care to not break their couplers too. I use the metal ones most of the time, the plastic ones feel weaker to me but I've still never broken one.
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AGHRMatt
USA
485 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 01:05:19
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Bruce:
I've only seen one Kadee failure. That was a Kadee mounted in an Intermountain car using the included plastic draft box. The car was placed too far forward in a long train and the draft box was sheared off the car from the load because the coupler held tight.
I've heard of, but haven't seen, 100-car coal trains being pulled without incident using Kadee couplers.
I don't think you'll have a problem with them. When I use scale couplers, my preferred choice is the all-metal #805's.
Matt Jackson
Angels Gate Hi-Railers
San Pedro, California
http://home.earthlink.net/~mcjackson/angelsgate.htm |
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mikea
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 02:40:08
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Hi Bruce, Kadee couplers are the way to go, I had a 35 car coal train running on the part of my layout that has track so far, all of the hoppers were Weaver 2 and 3 bay cars weighted to NMRA spec took this up a 2% grade with no problem. I wish Weaver and Atlas would just leave their couplers off and make it a little easier to mount Kadee's, and I use Kadee 804 the plastic couplers to me they are a little easier to prep for mounting, I give them an initial shot of Grease'm graphite and forget about them. The only couplers that I have seen fail are Weaver's.
Mike Ayotte C&O for Progress |
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Art Hopkins
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 09:42:08
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Bruce,
The gentleman in the scale coupler article, Bob Hillerich, has run 40 car trains with the cars being HiRail type cars of all manufacturers.
He has never had a failure with the Kadee's. He is awaiting the availablity of the new Atlas scale die-cast electro couplers and then will convert his locomotives.
As mentioned in the article the sound of the couplers clicking when the locomotive starts to move is worth the price of admission.
Art
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Allan
117 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 13:06:48
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Bruce;
I have also run 35 car frieghts with Kadees. And, as Matt mentions, the only problems I've experienced have been a couple of factory built Intermountain cars which had the couplers pop off under load. The reason is because the plastic couplers were glued on. On one car I reglued it with Tenax and it works fine. On the other car I reattached the couplers with 2-56 screws. If you want to add Kadees to a car that doesn't have pre-drilled holes, drill and tap for a #56 3/8" screw and you are good to go.
Allan
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Stavangersimon
Norway
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 13:31:05
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I own the company that represents Kadee in Scandinavia.
When we first started to import Kadee products to Norway, there were several 'objection' from potential customers requiring couplers for 0 gauge, H0 gauge and 0n42 pikes. 
We rigged up a strictly non-scientific arrangement to test Kadee couplers to failure, and wrote to the sceptics with the results. 
As I recall it, the #805 all metal coupler outlived the 60lb breaking strain fishing line that we used to add weights to....
(the line snapped before we could break the coupler...!)
The #804 / #805 gradually opened with 50lbs of weight.
(Is there an 0 gauge locomotive made that could pull 50lbs along the track... I mean deadweight, not mounted on wheels....????)
So, as far as I can see, Kadees will always suffice! 
regards
SimonT
SimonT |
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bhamly
USA
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 13:32:34
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WOW! Thanks for all the help guys. The sound of the couplers and bringing cars closer will be well worth it.
Allan, is the drill and tap you described available from Kadee? Here's the list, it's all foreign to me. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page36.htm
It would be nice to have prototypica length between locos, will the scale electro-couplers be shorter than the 3-rail EC's?
Thanks again.
Bruce
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www.northernogauge.com |
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dave5000
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 14:23:31
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I have been using Kadee 805's on my 3 rail equipment from the start. I love them and have run 30 car trains with no opening failures, the only problem i encountered was a screw loosening and the entire draft gearbox falling off - but that was my fault. The sound they make is awesome and their reliability is wonderful. I really love the uncoupling & coupling ease.
I have been waiting for about a YEAR now for these "scale electrocouplers" I was told: "they are on the way", "they are stuck on the boat"..... whatever -
I'll beleve it when I have my loco in pieces and mounting them.,
Oh yeah... when mounting to Atlas... use 2mm screws - not 2-56.
d5k |
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audiojim
USA
237 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 14:38:38
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Forgive me if I'm catching on a little slow here on this one. These new scale couplers are for mounting on either 2 OR 3 rail equipment?
I could convert all my Atlas 3 rail stock and locos to scale couplers?
And, if I do how much do I lose in terms of radius?
Sorry, this is new to me. The thought never crossed my mind before.
Jim
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bhamly
USA
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 15:38:30
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In a way do you have to learn how to run a consist all over again?
On the Kadee website the talk about delayed-uncoupling. Does this work with the #805?
audiojim, it's new for most of us. Read the OGR article.
Bruce
Visit my site!
www.northernogauge.com |
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Stavangersimon
Norway
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 17:18:37
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quote:
On the Kadee website they talk about delayed-uncoupling. Does this work with the #805?
The answer to this is simply 'yes'.
It's not the coupler that decides the 'delayed' or the 'non-delayed' function: it's the magnet that makes the thing work that is the deciding factor. A full width magnet #308 with a steel backing plate to enhance the magnet's action, (the magnet's poles are oriented in the same direction that the train runs: north-south-north poles) pulls the couplers apart more than a between-the-tracks magnet, #811. So that the coupler's claws only partially open, just sufficient to uncouple. The full width magnet, on the other hand, opens the couplers wide enough tor the 'delay' action to kick in.
(The same applies for the electric uncoupler, #810)
I have unhappily little (or no...) experience with the #809 magnet, which is designed for use with 3-rail, but for 2-rail, the statement above is correct.
Regarding the use of 2mm bolts instead of 2-56: you may as well get used to it: Jan 1 2010 is 'metric' day for US engineering!!!!!
regards
SimonT |
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